WCWS Softball

[Wasson]

Why are the young ladies striking the ball while out of the batters box not called out? I just saw #26 for LSU step on the plate and get a hit that scored a run , even though she should have been called out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Wasson

Why are the young ladies striking the ball while out of the batters box not called out? I just saw #26 for LSU step on the plate and get a hit that scored a run , even though she should have been called out.

Do you umpire? If so, how often do you focus on the batter's feet when a pitch with as much movement as these women at the highest levels of the NCAA can put on them is coming at you?

When it comes to making an out-of-the-box call, it has to be pretty danged obvious. The batter's foot has to be completely out of the box and on the ground when bat/ball contact is made, and if you're watching those feet at that moment, your not doing your job, IMO. Yes, you could glance down after you hear the bat hit the ball, but then you're seeing the feet a moment after the batter hit it, so how do you know if her foot was above the plate (legal) or on it (illegal) when contact happened?

[MD Longhorn]

We've seen the replay on this. Her foot was not obviously on the plate, and most likely not completely out of the box when the ball was contacted.

[CecilOne]

Even though I agree with Manny about difficulty, especially on an outside pitch, this was pretty obvious and these are the best umpires in the U.S.
Her toe was clearly down at the front of the plate with her heel up at the moment of contact.

[MNBlue]

And that is why we don't guess outs.

2 people saw the exact same video and see it completely differently.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Even though I agree with Manny about difficulty, especially on an outside pitch, this was pretty obvious and these are the best umpires in the U.S.
Her toe was clearly down at the front of the plate with her heel up at the moment of contact.

Yes, exactly - completely legal in NCAA. The NCAA rule includes the phrase "completely on the ground" - the interp being that if only part of the foot is touching the ground (the toe) and the rest is not (the heel in this case) but that "rest" would be touching the batters box line if it WAS touching the ground, then they do not have one foot completely on the ground, completely outside the batters box.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Even though I agree with Manny about difficulty, especially on an outside pitch, this was pretty obvious and these are the best umpires in the U.S.
Her toe was clearly down at the front of the plate with her heel up at the moment of contact.

Obvious if you have a second umpire watching only the foot, perhaps.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

but that "rest" would be touching the batters box line if it WAS touching the ground,

Not the case, and if it were, only in NCAA.

Elsewhere AFAIK, "entirely touching out means none touching in"
All, please correct me if wrong.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Not the case, and if it were, only in NCAA.

Elsewhere AFAIK, "entirely touching out means none touching in"
All, please correct me if wrong.

ASA says "entire foot is touching the ground completely outside", but it also says "any part of the foot is touching home plate".

I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the batter since this is so difficult to see. You are focusing on the pitch up to the point of contact, and if you then look down at the feet it is too late to know for sure if the foot was down AT contact or just after. IOW, it needs to be blatantly obvious - in my field of view and down before contact. This does not mean I am making a private rule... it just means as a practical matter, it is nearly impossible to do otherwise.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Not the case, and if it were, only in NCAA.

Elsewhere AFAIK, "entirely touching out means none touching in"
All, please correct me if wrong.

Absolutely the case.

Here's the NCAA rule, word for word:

"At the moment of bat-ball contact, the batter may not contact the pitch when any part of her foot is touching home plate, even though she may be touching the lines of the batter's box. In addition, the batter may not contact the pitch when her entire foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box."

Note - the ENTIRE FOOT is touching the ground.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Even though I agree with Manny about difficulty, especially on an outside pitch, this was pretty obvious and these are the best umpires in the U.S.
.

Don't kid yourself

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Absolutely the case.

Here's the NCAA rule, word for word:

"At the moment of bat-ball contact, the batter may not contact the pitch when any part of her foot is touching home plate, even though she may be touching the lines of the batter's box. In addition, the batter may not contact the pitch when her entire foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box."

Note - the ENTIRE FOOT is touching the ground.

That is poor wording that I've raised for years. It should read, "when the entire part of her foot touching the ground is completely outside the lines of the batter's box.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Absolutely the case.

Here's the NCAA rule, word for word:

"At the moment of bat-ball contact, the batter may not contact the pitch when any part of her foot is touching home plate, even though she may be touching the lines of the batter's box. In addition, the batter may not contact the pitch when her entire foot is touching the ground completely outside the lines of the batter's box."

Note - the ENTIRE FOOT is touching the ground.

Mike, I believe someone has sold you a steaming pile. The entire foot touching has always meant to reflect that any and all parts of the foot which are touching.

By what you are saying, she could hop three times on her toes and be 6 feet in front of the box at the time of contact as long as she never let her entire foot touch the ground at any one time??

Originally Posted by Dakota

ASA says "entire foot is touching the ground completely outside", but it also says "any part of the foot is touching home plate".

I have to give the benefit of the doubt to the batter since this is so difficult to see. You are focusing on the pitch up to the point of contact, and if you then look down at the feet it is too late to know for sure if the foot was down AT contact or just after. IOW, it needs to be blatantly obvious - in my field of view and down before contact. This does not mean I am making a private rule... it just means as a practical matter, it is nearly impossible to do otherwise.

Tom, let me paraphrase; if the pitch is down in the zone, you maybe can see the foot while tracking the pitch. If the pitch is up, in or out, maintaining the priority of tracking the ball makes seeing the foot definitively on the ground and completely out of the box is generally unlikely.

Coach, if you want that call, maybe you should be throwing drops, not riseballs!!

[Andy]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Coach, if you want that call, maybe you should be throwing drops, not riseballs!!

I may use this one......

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't kid yourself

Do I really need smilies every time I am being facetious?

OK