Coach's View of the Look-Back Rule

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by chuck chopper

I missed something. How did we get an R3 with a full count ?- unless this wild pitch was called a strike ?

It's clearly a typo. R3 meaning the runner from 3rd. Don't complicate matters.

[MD Longhorn]

NSA actually doesn't say whether this is a live ball or dead ball. It's silent on the subject (Rule 8-8-x). Elsewhere in the book it says that when things aren't specified in the NSA book, go by NFHS rules. LBR is a dead ball in every other rule set.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

NSA actually doesn't say whether this is a live ball or dead ball. It's silent on the subject (Rule 8-8-x). Elsewhere in the book it says that when things aren't specified in the NSA book, go by NFHS rules. LBR is a dead ball in every other rule set.

You and blueump should stop confusing things with FACTS.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

NSA actually doesn't say whether this is a live ball or dead ball. It's silent on the subject (Rule 8-8-x). Elsewhere in the book it says that when things aren't specified in the NSA book, go by NFHS rules. LBR is a dead ball in every other rule set.

True, it does not say either way.
What it does say is:
"... will result in the runner being declared out." (As you stated - Rule 8-8-x)
That leaves no reason for the umpire to declare a dead ball as well as the out.
In fact the LBR is NOT mentioned in Rule 9 Section 1 which is "The ball is dead and not in play:"
Again, no justification to rule dead ball.

And for the edification of anyone reading your post as education; NO, In NSA there is NO default to NFHS (or any other) rules.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by robbie

And for the edification of anyone reading your post as education; NO, In NSA there is NO default to NFHS (or any other) rules.

I stand corrected. I thought that was the case before checking your book, and then misread the "Note: Any softball rules not covered or found in this section will be covered or found in Part I of the official NSA Rulebook" to say NFHS.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by robbie

And for the edification of anyone reading your post as education; NO, In NSA there is NO default to NFHS (or any other) rules.

Good, one book at a time is bad enough.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by robbie

True, it does not say either way.
What it does say is:
"... will result in the runner being declared out." (As you stated - Rule 8-8-x)
That leaves no reason for the umpire to declare a dead ball as well as the out.
In fact the LBR is NOT mentioned in Rule 9 Section 1 which is "The ball is dead and not in play:"
Again, no justification to rule dead ball.

The NSA Case Book (which is on-line, if anyone wants to check it out) has several case plays where the Look Back Rule is violated and states that the ball is DEAD.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

The NSA Case Book (which is on-line, if anyone wants to check it out) has several case plays where the Look Back Rule is violated and states that the ball is DEAD.

To not kill the ball is just asking for trouble. If you do not kill the ball, other runners may attempt to advance and also be in violation of the LBR, but you will most likely be having a discussion with the OC.

The umpire needs to kill the play to control the game

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

It's clearly a typo. R3 meaning the runner from 3rd. Don't complicate matters.

Apparently not a typo, but non-standard terminology.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Apparently not a typo, but non-standard terminology.

Since he used baseball terminology for the runners and called TIME instead of DEAD BALL, it is a good bet he is a baseball-trained umpire!

To the issue, I'll have to refer to NFHS rules, since I don't umpire NSA (I didn't even know they took time away from monitoring our phones to run a softball league... ). The rule is pretty clear. The coach is at least uninformed, and I never allow coaches to "proof text" a rule.

The last batter-runner in your situation is R2 on first (you called her R1). Since she has clearly reached 1B, and then 2B, the LBR is clearly in effect.

I don't find that to be hard to understand at all.

The correct call for a LBR violation is DEAD BALL, and then the runner is declared out.

(BTW, in a softball game, the call TIME is only used for actual time outs, not for dead ball situations that result from game play.)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The last batter-runner in your situation is R2 on first (you called her R1). Since she has clearly reached 1B, and then 2B, the LBR is clearly in effect.

If we're being pedantic about someone else's terminology... R2 is a runner... not a batter-runner.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If we're being pedantic about someone else's terminology... R2 is a runner... not a batter-runner.

I wasn't being pedantic; anal maybe! Proper terminology for the sport is appreciated and leads to less confusion. And, I didn't say R2 was a batter-runner, I said she was the last batter-runner.

[Andy]

My look back rule story.....

I am BU. R1 on second, wild pitch, R1 advances to and rounds third.
Ball retrieved and returned to pitcher in the circle who looks at R1 off of third base. Pitcher raises her arm and starts pump faking as if she is going to throw. R1 is dancing back and forth. No throw is made and R1 returns to third.

Defensive coach starts yelling from the third base dugout...She (R1) can't do that! She is out! You have to call her out! Since I am close to the dugout, I respond by saying that the pitcher is attempting a play and that turns the rule off.

Coach says back to me that it doesn't matter..if the pitcher is in the circle she can do anything she wants and the runner can't dance back and forth. I just shake my head and we play on....

A few pitches later, I notice coach get up and walk to the end of the dugout and start digging in a backpack...and pulls out a rule book!

I say loudly toward the dugout......"It's in rule 8 if you want to look it up!"

Yes...I know that I probably handled this inappropriately, but I just couldn't stop myself....

Next half inning break, I am getting a drink near the first base side and coach comes over toward me....."So when did that rule change, was it last year?"

Uhhhh...no, coach.....

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Andy

I say loudly toward the dugout......"It's in rule 8 if you want to look it up!"

Yes...I know that I probably handled this inappropriately, but I just couldn't stop myself....

Funny. And yeah - probably a bit inappropriate. I find that any time the umpire is shouting across the diamond, they have lost a little control of their composure and of the situation.