Coach's View of the Look-Back Rule

[robbie]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Well, that is going to depend on how the umpires they are getting it are calling it. Helped a neighbor coach a rec team a couple of years ago, just so happens to be the same league I did for years but they had gone to NSA sanction and switched to a different umpiring group.

During entire season not one lookback violation called, nor ever an obstruction call EVER. It really came to a head in one game where we had specifically been instructing our pitchers they were not to attempt to throw out runners standing off base, they were to just stand there with the ball doing nothing. Runner rounds 3rd and stops about 3 steps off the base, pitcher has ball in circle. Runner stands there, and stands there. I can see pitcher is getting itchy and I tell her DO NOT THROW THE BALL. Runner continues to stand there, as you can figure out this is well past a lookback violation. Finally after about 30 seconds the pitcher can't resist any longer and throws the ball and as you can guess the run scores.

I was completely fed up and went to the umpire assignor and asked why the published rules were not being enforced. The answer I got was, "we are giving the umpires leeway in the way they call the game because we want the girls to learn the game of softball." I asked her how we were ever suppose to teach the girls the game when we were operating under 30 different umpires rule sets and the most basic rules of the game were being ignored.

Wish I had a cricket sound effect to insert because that was about the same response I got.................. Relaxing the rules is not helping teach anyone the game, just as ignoring illegal pitches and just talking to the coach about it never fixes the pitcher.

Please don't attribute this to being NSA taught umpires. It certainly may be the case with that particular group, but I can tell you Indiana NSA umpires are very well trained.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by robbie

Please don't attribute this to being NSA taught umpires. It certainly may be the case with that particular group, but I can tell you Indiana NSA umpires are very well trained.

Sorry..I cannot buy this..You said "NSA"..."Indiana"..and "well trained" in the same sentence......

[EsqUmp]

Most rule books screwed up when they changed it to not go into effect until a batter who was become a batter-runner reaches first base. They made that switch by forgot about when the batter doesn't become a batter-runner. Obviously, the rule is still in effect. But the wording is awful.

[chuck chopper]

I missed something. How did we get an R3 with a full count ?- unless this wild pitch was called a strike ?

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by chuck chopper

I missed something. How did we get an R3 with a full count ?- unless this wild pitch was called a strike ?

It's clearly a typo. R3 meaning the runner from 3rd. Don't complicate matters.

[MD Longhorn]

NSA actually doesn't say whether this is a live ball or dead ball. It's silent on the subject (Rule 8-8-x). Elsewhere in the book it says that when things aren't specified in the NSA book, go by NFHS rules. LBR is a dead ball in every other rule set.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

NSA actually doesn't say whether this is a live ball or dead ball. It's silent on the subject (Rule 8-8-x). Elsewhere in the book it says that when things aren't specified in the NSA book, go by NFHS rules. LBR is a dead ball in every other rule set.

You and blueump should stop confusing things with FACTS.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

NSA actually doesn't say whether this is a live ball or dead ball. It's silent on the subject (Rule 8-8-x). Elsewhere in the book it says that when things aren't specified in the NSA book, go by NFHS rules. LBR is a dead ball in every other rule set.

True, it does not say either way.
What it does say is:
"... will result in the runner being declared out." (As you stated - Rule 8-8-x)
That leaves no reason for the umpire to declare a dead ball as well as the out.
In fact the LBR is NOT mentioned in Rule 9 Section 1 which is "The ball is dead and not in play:"
Again, no justification to rule dead ball.

And for the edification of anyone reading your post as education; NO, In NSA there is NO default to NFHS (or any other) rules.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

It's clearly a typo. R3 meaning the runner from 3rd. Don't complicate matters.

Apparently not a typo, but non-standard terminology.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Apparently not a typo, but non-standard terminology.

Since he used baseball terminology for the runners and called TIME instead of DEAD BALL, it is a good bet he is a baseball-trained umpire!

To the issue, I'll have to refer to NFHS rules, since I don't umpire NSA (I didn't even know they took time away from monitoring our phones to run a softball league... ). The rule is pretty clear. The coach is at least uninformed, and I never allow coaches to "proof text" a rule.

The last batter-runner in your situation is R2 on first (you called her R1). Since she has clearly reached 1B, and then 2B, the LBR is clearly in effect.

I don't find that to be hard to understand at all.

The correct call for a LBR violation is DEAD BALL, and then the runner is declared out.

(BTW, in a softball game, the call TIME is only used for actual time outs, not for dead ball situations that result from game play.)

[robbie]

Originally Posted by azbigdawg

Sorry..I cannot buy this..You said "NSA"..."Indiana"..and "well trained" in the same sentence......

I assume you type in jest. Either way and regardless of your opinion, as a whole group, Indiana NSA umpires are quite good.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by robbie

I assume you type in jest. Either way and regardless of your opinion, as a whole group, Indiana NSA umpires are quite good.

mmmk