ASA test question

[CecilOne]

Yes, I think better late than never.

Did we discuss ASA 2015 question 19 on this forum? If so, please tell me a key to search or a date. If not, please do, without stating the answer in the answer key, if you know it.

19. In the bottom of the seventh inning of a tie game, an unreported substitute for B1 is batting and on the first pitch hits a home run.
Before the umpires leave the playing field, the defense notifies the umpires that B1’s substitute did not report. The umpire should rule:
a.) B1’s substitute is officially in the game, the run is nullified and B1 is declared out.
b.) B1’s substitute’s run counts because there is no penalty for an unreported substitute and the game is over.
c.) B1 substitute’s is declared out but the run counts and the game is over.
d.) None of the above.

[CecilOne]

Prab, Bret, Tom, ranger,
Please delete you responses to this post in the NFHS topic (unhijacked ?)
Thank you!

[Dakota]

As stated in the NFHS test thread, the answer is found in RS 51.

[BretMan]

Correct answer is "e"...Umpires didn't get off the field quick enough!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

19. In the bottom of the seventh inning of a tie game, an unreported substitute for B1 is batting and on the first pitch hits a home run.
Before the umpires leave the playing field, the defense notifies the umpires that B1’s substitute did not report. The umpire should rule:
a.) B1’s substitute is officially in the game, the run is nullified and B1 is declared out.
b.) B1’s substitute’s run counts because there is no penalty for an unreported substitute and the game is over.
c.) B1 substitute’s is declared out but the run counts and the game is over.
d.) None of the above.

ASA Test. This is still with us, now as #23.

To me, 4.6.c.1 and 4.6.c.3/4 are contradictory or at least inconsistent. The 4.6.c.1 says "all action stands", which seems to mean no outs can occur.

RS 51 does not really clarify if the home run pitch makes the discovery "after a pitch" or whether calling the unreported sub out nullifies the hit/run.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

ASA Test. This is still with us, now as #23.

To me, 4.6.c.1 and 4.6.c.3/4 are contradictory or at least inconsistent. The 4.6.c.1 says "all action stands", which seems to mean no outs can occur.

RS 51 does not really clarify if the home run pitch makes the discovery "after a pitch" or whether calling the unreported sub out nullifies the hit/run.

4.6.C.3 applies, answer is A

4.6.C is arranged in a progressive order

1. Anytime prior to a turn at bat;
2. During the US turn at bat;
3. After completed turn at bat prior to any qualifiers on protest are satisfied
4. After completed turn at bat after the qualifiers have been met

[josephrt1]

As long as the "B1" mentioned in answer a is the substitute B1 and not the original B1. According to 4.6.C.3 Effect 1 it is the substitute who is out. This is different than batting out of order where the player who was scheduled to bat is the one called out.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

As long as the "B1" mentioned in answer a is the substitute B1 and not the original B1. According to 4.6.C.3 Effect 1 it is the substitute who is out. This is different than batting out of order where the player who was scheduled to bat is the one called out.

What difference does it make?

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by youngump

What difference does it make?

Words have meaning and as umpires we're supposed to be using rulebook language. Choice A is almost correct, and given that the test also offers choice D, which one is most correct?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

What difference does it make?

The sub has to be out to nullify the hit/run.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The sub has to be out to nullify the hit/run.

If the rule said that the original fellow was out, the action was nullified and the sub was now in the game, then we would do everything exactly the same as we do now. No? (Except that the scorekeeper would put the star for the note on the out in a very slightly different place)

[IRISHMAFIA]

I really don't understand how anyone can actually read the rule and not come the correct answer

4.6.C: A substitute who enters the game without reporting is considered an unreported substitute

Since in the OP the unreported substitute has complete his/her turn at bat, subparagraph 3 applies:

When completing a turn at bat and is discovered
a. BEFORE the next pitch, legal or illegal
b. BEFORE the defense has left the field
c. BEFORE the umpires have left the field

According to OP, "c" applies so you go to the EFFECT:

1. The unreported substitute is officially in the game and ruled out. (B1 is out, nullifies the run)
2. All other outs that occur on this play stand (n/a in the OP)
3. All other runners will return to the base occupied at the time of the pitch (n/a in the OP)

BTW, the rule for 2015 reads the same as the rule for 2016

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I really don't understand how anyone can actually read the rule and not come the correct answer...

Read the question again, Mike:

19. In the bottom of the seventh inning of a tie game, an unreported substitute for B1 is batting and on the first pitch hits a home run.
Before the umpires leave the playing field, the defense notifies the umpires that B1’s substitute did not report. The umpire should rule:
a.) B1’s substitute is officially in the game, the run is nullified and B1 is declared out.
b.) B1’s substitute’s run counts because there is no penalty for an unreported substitute and the game is over.
c.) B1 substitute’s is declared out but the run counts and the game is over.
d.) None of the above.

Throughout, it is careful to distinguish between B1 and B1's substitute, yet answer choice a) says it is B1 that is out, not B1's substitute.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Read the question again, Mike:

19. In the bottom of the seventh inning of a tie game, an unreported substitute for B1 is batting and on the first pitch hits a home run.
Before the umpires leave the playing field, the defense notifies the umpires that B1’s substitute did not report. The umpire should rule:
a.) B1’s substitute is officially in the game, the run is nullified and B1 is declared out.
b.) B1’s substitute’s run counts because there is no penalty for an unreported substitute and the game is over.
c.) B1 substitute’s is declared out but the run counts and the game is over.
d.) None of the above.

Throughout, it is careful to distinguish between B1 and B1's substitute, yet answer choice a) says it is B1 that is out, not B1's substitute.

Basically you have an reported substitute who finished their at bat when B1 should have batted and then appealed so we have Batting out of order B1 is out. The unreported Sub is now in the game as she has batted Illegally.

THis is how I view it by breaking it down.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Read the question again, Mike:

19. In the bottom of the seventh inning of a tie game, an unreported substitute for B1 is batting and on the first pitch hits a home run.
Before the umpires leave the playing field, the defense notifies the umpires that B1’s substitute did not report. The umpire should rule:
a.) B1’s substitute is officially in the game, the run is nullified and B1 is declared out.
b.) B1’s substitute’s run counts because there is no penalty for an unreported substitute and the game is over.
c.) B1 substitute’s is declared out but the run counts and the game is over.
d.) None of the above.

Throughout, it is careful to distinguish between B1 and B1's substitute, yet answer choice a) says it is B1 that is out, not B1's substitute.

There is nothing wrong with the wording of the question. If b1's substitute is officially in the game, they now are in fact b1.