The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 12:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Chicago area, Illinois
Posts: 71
Send a message via ICQ to falsecut Send a message via AIM to falsecut Send a message via Yahoo to falsecut
Obstruction after sacrifice fly

NFHS rule question.

Runner on third. Fly ball hit to left fielder who makes the catch. The runner properly tags and heads home down the third base line. The catcher is anticipating the throw and has moved to a position straddling the third base line, about three to four feet up the line. She is directly in the path of the runner at this point. The ball is thrown in from left field on the fly and takes the catcher inside the diamond after which she receives the throw and diving to the plate tags the runner just before she slides across it.

We would definitely have obstruction had there been a collision prior to the catcher having received the ball for instance. My request is for opinions on how far up the line it might seem the runner would have to be for obstruction not to apply in this case. There is nothing "complicated" as it were in this play, just a straight tag up and go home play with the catcher having been in the direct path home at some point.
__________________
Craig
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 08:23am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 648
Straddling the line is not obstruction; causing the runner to alter or deviate her path to the plate is obstruction.
As soon as the runner slows down or goes wide (due to F2's position in her path) you have OBS.

Last edited by jmkupka; Wed Apr 01, 2015 at 08:26am.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 09:55am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by falsecut View Post
NFHS rule question.

Runner on third. Fly ball hit to left fielder who makes the catch. The runner properly tags and heads home down the third base line. The catcher is anticipating the throw and has moved to a position straddling the third base line, about three to four feet up the line. She is directly in the path of the runner at this point. The ball is thrown in from left field on the fly and takes the catcher inside the diamond after which she receives the throw and diving to the plate tags the runner just before she slides across it.

We would definitely have obstruction had there been a collision prior to the catcher having received the ball for instance. My request is for opinions on how far up the line it might seem the runner would have to be for obstruction not to apply in this case. There is nothing "complicated" as it were in this play, just a straight tag up and go home play with the catcher having been in the direct path home at some point.
Any hindrance, contact not needed, but runner MUST be hindered or impeded.

If in your case, if the runner was hindered and that caused the tag to beat the slide, then probably OBS. If the catcher position had no affect on the runner, then not OBS.

Any hindrance, contact not needed, but runner MUST be hindered or impeded.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 10:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,210
Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Any hindrance, contact not needed, but runner MUST be hindered or impeded.
This is spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
If in your case, if the runner was hindered and that caused the tag to beat the slide, then probably OBS.
But this is not quite right. Even if the runner would have been out by 10 feet if the catcher hinders the runner, we have obstruction. In my case, you'd be returning the player to third and in yours awarding home, but whether we have obstruction does not turn on whether the obstruction was enough to turn a safe into an out. (Perhaps it should be but it isn't).
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 10:56am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by falsecut View Post
NFHS rule question.

Runner on third. Fly ball hit to left fielder who makes the catch. The runner properly tags and heads home down the third base line. The catcher is anticipating the throw and has moved to a position straddling the third base line, about three to four feet up the line. She is directly in the path of the runner at this point. The ball is thrown in from left field on the fly and takes the catcher inside the diamond after which she receives the throw and diving to the plate tags the runner just before she slides across it.

We would definitely have obstruction had there been a collision prior to the catcher having received the ball for instance. My request is for opinions on how far up the line it might seem the runner would have to be for obstruction not to apply in this case. There is nothing "complicated" as it were in this play, just a straight tag up and go home play with the catcher having been in the direct path home at some point.
You are completely misunderstanding this rule by your description and your question.

Keep it simple. Ask yourself one question.

Did the runner deviate from her chosen path (includes hesitating or slowing or swerving) because of the fielder in her path without the ball?

That's ALL you need to answer. How far up the line is irrelevant. How close was the ball is irrelevant.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 10:57am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Orange County NY
Posts: 698
Send a message via Yahoo to ASA/NYSSOBLUE
Had this once a while back in a PONY tournament -

Score 0-0 in like the 4th inning; R1 on 2B, I have the plate. B1 hits the ball to deep short, where F6 stabs the ball deep in the hole, and decides to try and get R1, who is trying for 3B. F6 throws the ball past F5, and the ball goes to the wall of the enclosed field, both F2 and F5 chasing the ball. Meanwhile, R1 is motoring around 3B, trying for home. F1, who has started to go for the ball also, realizes HP is unprotected, and goes to cover......running about 4 feet directly if front of R1 about 3/4 of the way down the 3B line . I, of course, immediately stick my left arm out, as F1 waits directly in front of HP waiting for the ball, gets it and tags R1. I, of course, call R1 out, killed the ball, and then awarded her home.

Now, at the time, I would have had two OBS on F1 in ASA, but since PONY at the time had not yet adopted the ASA rule of needing the ball to block, I still had the other one. And yes, the offensive coach went nuts...but I stopped listening when he started in with the 'there wasn't any contact' business. And also yes, it turned out to be the only run in the game.

Perfect non-contact OBS, as far as I am concerned....
__________________
www.chvbgsoinc.org
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 11:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump View Post
But this is not quite right. Even if the runner would have been out by 10 feet if the catcher hinders the runner, we have obstruction. In my case, you'd be returning the player to third and in yours awarding home, but whether we have obstruction does not turn on whether the obstruction was enough to turn a safe into an out. (Perhaps it should be but it isn't).
Oh, I didn't mean it that way, just trying to apply hindrance to the case, badly I guess. Yours is better.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 12:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE View Post
...And yes, the offensive coach went nuts...but I stopped listening when he started in with the 'there wasn't any contact' business. And also yes, it turned out to be the only run in the game.

Perfect non-contact OBS, as far as I am concerned....
And, the coach & all the parents STILL blame you for that loss!
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Apr 01, 2015, 12:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE View Post
Meanwhile, R1 is motoring around 3B, trying for home. F1, who has started to go for the ball also, realizes HP is unprotected, and goes to cover......running about 4 feet directly if front of R1 about 3/4 of the way down the 3B line . I, of course, immediately stick my left arm out, as F1 waits directly in front of HP waiting for the ball, gets it and tags R1. I, of course, call R1 out, killed the ball, and then awarded her home. ...
Knowing you, I'm sure your call was right ... but you omitted the important part - what the runner did. As described (with no other detail) this may or may not be OBS - which is the same detail the OP omitted here.

PS - next time - if you are the umpire calling OBS and also the umpire who would have called the out, they want us to not call the out, but rather just dead ball, and then award. Nitpicky, I know...
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Apr 03, 2015, 05:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: East Central, FL
Posts: 1,042
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Knowing you, I'm sure your call was right ... but you omitted the important part - what the runner did. As described (with no other detail) this may or may not be OBS - which is the same detail the OP omitted here.

PS - next time - if you are the umpire calling OBS and also the umpire who would have called the out, they want us to not call the out, but rather just dead ball, and then award. Nitpicky, I know...
Nit picky, but exactly correct.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
catcher, obstruction

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Obstruction??? David M Baseball 5 Wed May 31, 2006 03:38am
Out or Obstruction? SRW Softball 6 Tue May 23, 2006 02:34pm
Obstruction in FED LMan Baseball 1 Mon Apr 17, 2006 09:41am
Sacrifice? gmckinney Baseball 11 Fri Sep 05, 2003 08:25am
Sacrifice sbnorman Baseball 1 Fri Jun 14, 2002 08:06am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:13pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1