Calling an illegal pitch

[Rita C]

High school varsity.

You are on the bases. In A position, you realize that the pitcher is probably stepping on the plate with her hands together. But you can't be certain, of course so you call nothing.

Runner on first, you are in B. It is even more probable from that position but you still can't be sure.

Runner moves to second. Now you are certain she is stepping on the plate with her hands together.

What now?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rita C

High school varsity.

You are on the bases. In A position, you realize that the pitcher is probably stepping on the plate with her hands together. But you can't be certain, of course so you call nothing.

Runner on first, you are in B. It is even more probable from that position but you still can't be sure.

Runner moves to second. Now you are certain she is stepping on the plate with her hands together.

What now?

Well, if you are certain, and I assume that means you can clearly see the hands together when she steps to the plate, why wouldn't you make the appropriate call?

[SNIPERBBB]

That's why PU can make IP calls. Lot easier for the PU to make pre-pitch IP calls than the BU.

[RKBUmp]

I believe that was the intent of the post. The pu wasn't calling the IP and it was the bu that wasn't completely positive in a & b but saw it clearly in c.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Rita C

High school varsity.

You are on the bases. In A position, you realize that the pitcher is probably stepping on the plate with her hands together. But you can't be certain, of course so you call nothing.

Runner on first, you are in B. It is even more probable from that position but you still can't be sure.

Runner moves to second. Now you are certain she is stepping on the plate with her hands together.

What now?

At the end of the inning, go to your PU partner and ask him/her about it. It may be that s/he didn't notice or didn't know the rule, or......

You also may want to mention it to the pitcher as she is warming up between innings.

[BretMan]

Going off on a tangent...

For all of the cries about "crow hops" and "leaps", the most common pitching violation I probably see is the pitcher stepping onto the plate with her hands together.

I do call it when I see it and, inevitably, when I do I get the old, "She's never been called for that before". It's an old excuse, but now I'm starting to believe it.

Two weekends ago I went to a clinic for our local high school umpire group. One of the exercises had all of the umpires- there were about 70 there- standing around while someone simulated various legal and illegal pitching moves. If we saw something illegal, we were asked to signal and call it just as we would during a game.

Everyone was calling the obvious stuff (licking fingers and touching the ball, feet not correctly on the pitcher's plate, double touches, etc.). Then, the pitcher stood behind the plate, brought his hands together, and stepped onto the plate.

Of the 70 umpires there, I was the only one who called out "illegal"!

Maybe all these pitchers really haven't been called for this before...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Rita C

High school varsity.

You are on the bases. In A position, you realize that the pitcher is probably stepping on the plate with her hands together. But you can't be certain, of course so you call nothing.

Runner on first, you are in B. It is even more probable from that position but you still can't be sure.

Runner moves to second. Now you are certain she is stepping on the plate with her hands together.

What now?

Are you concerned about PU not calling it or about the fact that it wasn't called until the runner was on second?

[Tru_in_Blu]

I'll second Andy's comment about speaking w/ your partner between innings.

I probably wouldn't mention it to the pitcher directly, but would alert the coach about it. This is probably the easiest of the pitching infractions to correct.

And, as others have mentioned, the PU is usually responsible for this one, the double touch, and the 24" lane violation.

In my neck of the woods, the double touch is the one I see the most from the PU position, especially in black fly season. And it's much more common w/ the younger players and rec league play.

I've given clemency to a pitcher when some large insect flew at her face during her delivery which she curtailed. Equal treatment for a batter when some kind of bee flew inside her face mask.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

You also may want to mention it to the pitcher as she is warming up between innings.

I would only talk to the coach.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Of the 70 umpires there, I was the only one who called out "illegal"!

Maybe all these pitchers really haven't been called for this before...

How can they not know this is a rule violation. It is the same in many, if not most softball codes, so there shouldn't be any confusion.

And dare I suggest that if an umpire doesn't know something as simple as this, s/he is not ready for live pitching

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Going off on a tangent...



I do call it when I see it and, inevitably, when I do I get the old, "She's never been called for that before". It's an old excuse, but now I'm starting to believe it.



Maybe all these pitchers really haven't been called for this before...

It was quite obvious from the look on her face that she had never been called on that before. Plus the "Ooooookkkkkaaaayyyyyy".

My concern was that the PU had not called it. I don't like calling it that late. And I've found that coaches aren't receptive to my "suggestions". Much easier to just call it, especially when it is that fixable.

Turned out PU had no clue what I called.

[Manny A]

This is kinda one of those Catch-22 situations where if you call it, you're accused of having thrown your partner under the proverbial bus.

I made a similar call in a varsity game earlier this season when it was obvious, even from A, that the pitcher stepped on the plate with the ball in her glove, she reached in and pulled it out with her bare hand, and dropped her hand to her side to receive signals from her catcher. The first time she did it, I was like, "Did she just do what I thought I saw?" The next time, I called the IP and told her coach what she did wrong.

Between innings, my partner called me over and said, "That's my call to make." I said, "Okay. Didn't you see her do it?" He replied, "I didn't notice, but next time, don't make that call. Just wait until I see it and call it, or let me know between innings what's going on." I said, "I hear ya, partner, but I don't feel comfortable letting a pitcher violate the rules, regardless of who has priority on the call." He didn't like my answer.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Manny A

This is kinda one of those Catch-22 situations where if you call it, you're accused of having thrown your partner under the proverbial bus.

I made a similar call in a varsity game earlier this season when it was obvious, even from A, that the pitcher stepped on the plate with the ball in her glove, she reached in and pulled it out with her bare hand, and dropped her hand to her side to receive signals from her catcher. The first time she did it, I was like, "Did she just do what I thought I saw?" The next time, I called the IP and told her coach what she did wrong.

Between innings, my partner called me over and said, "That's my call to make." I said, "Okay. Didn't you see her do it?" He replied, "I didn't notice, but next time, don't make that call. Just wait until I see it and call it, or let me know between innings what's going on." I said, "I hear ya, partner, but I don't feel comfortable letting a pitcher violate the rules, regardless of who has priority on the call." He didn't like my answer.

Oh my goodness.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

This is kinda one of those Catch-22 situations where if you call it, you're accused of having thrown your partner under the proverbial bus.

I made a similar call in a varsity game earlier this season when it was obvious, even from A, that the pitcher stepped on the plate with the ball in her glove, she reached in and pulled it out with her bare hand, and dropped her hand to her side to receive signals from her catcher. The first time she did it, I was like, "Did she just do what I thought I saw?" The next time, I called the IP and told her coach what she did wrong.

Between innings, my partner called me over and said, "That's my call to make." I said, "Okay. Didn't you see her do it?" He replied, "I didn't notice, but next time, don't make that call. Just wait until I see it and call it, or let me know between innings what's going on." I said, "I hear ya, partner, but I don't feel comfortable letting a pitcher violate the rules, regardless of who has priority on the call." He didn't like my answer.

Others may not agree with me, but here's what I do:

In rec games, I'm just telling my partner between innings; probably telling the coach, too. If PU doesn't start to call it, I will. Sorry, you had your chance.

In upper level and collegiate games, if I see it randomly (happened twice in the inning), I'm (again) good with telling my partner what I'm seeing. But, if I see it on every pitch, there is no legitimate reason to wait. Sure the PU should make that call, but letting an entire inning of illegal pitches go by to tell a supposedly high level umpire that he isn't seeing an obvious illegal pitch makes it way more difficult to sell it when finally called.

And, most collegiate games are being taped by someone, or webcast, or telecast or ESPN3, or something. Our job is to call the game by the rules, and that's what they pay us to do, not so much to spare our PU's feelings if he isn't seeing what he has to see.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

This is kinda one of those Catch-22 situations where if you call it, you're accused of having thrown your partner under the proverbial bus.

I made a similar call in a varsity game earlier this season when it was obvious, even from A, that the pitcher stepped on the plate with the ball in her glove, she reached in and pulled it out with her bare hand, and dropped her hand to her side to receive signals from her catcher. The first time she did it, I was like, "Did she just do what I thought I saw?" The next time, I called the IP and told her coach what she did wrong.

Between innings, my partner called me over and said, "That's my call to make." I said, "Okay. Didn't you see her do it?" He replied, "I didn't notice, but next time, don't make that call. Just wait until I see it and call it, or let me know between innings what's going on." I said, "I hear ya, partner, but I don't feel comfortable letting a pitcher violate the rules, regardless of who has priority on the call." He didn't like my answer.

I will always be in the house of "if you see it, call it". Want to let the coach know what you are seeing first, no problem. But if not heeded, it should not be ignored. Understand, I'm not talking about a presumption or guess, but actually seeing and knowing the violation occurred. That IS why you are there and for what you are being paid.

If your partner believes it is his/her call, then s/he should make the call.