Injury / Substitute

[DRJ1960]

JV coach has played all subs. Late in game a player is injured and there is no eligible sub to replace her. Play with 8? Allow sub who was previously in a different spot in batting order?

My understanding is play with 8. But I am being told there is an injury exception that I cannot find.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DRJ1960

JV coach has played all subs. Late in game a player is injured and there is no eligible sub to replace her. Play with 8? Allow sub who was previously in a different spot in batting order?

My understanding is play with 8. But I am being told there is an injury exception that I cannot find.

Are you thinking of the CR rule?

[RKBUmp]

A player who has occupied a spot in the lineup can never occupy a different spot.

[Rich Ives]

There are rule sets that have a provision for replacing an injured player (LL is one).

FED isn't one of them.

[DRJ1960]

Thanks, guys.

[Tru_in_Blu]

There is (at least) one exception in NFHS that I'm aware of. Once again, the rule is somewhat cloudy, and this one seems to combine 2 different scenarios into one category.

Rule 4-3 ART. 1 ... A game shall be forfeited to the offended team by the umpire when a team:

g. cannot provide 8 players (FP) in the batting order to finish the game. An out is called in that spot of the batting order (7.4.1). If that player has safely reached base, then the most recent batter not on base is allowed to run for that player, until that player is put out, scores, or the half-inning ends.

[wallyb]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

There are rule sets that have a provision for replacing an injured player (LL is one).

FED isn't one of them.

PONY has a special provision as well. if they have no eligible subs they can use the player last removed from the game with some restrictions

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

There is (at least) one exception in NFHS that I'm aware of. Once again, the rule is somewhat cloudy, and this one seems to combine 2 different scenarios into one category.

Rule 4-3 ART. 1 ... A game shall be forfeited to the offended team by the umpire when a team:

g. cannot provide 8 players (FP) in the batting order to finish the game. An out is called in that spot of the batting order (7.4.1). If that player has safely reached base, then the most recent batter not on base is allowed to run for that player, until that player is put out, scores, or the half-inning ends.

See also NFHS 3-3-8..

This NFHS exception allows a runner who is hurt while running bases to be replaced by a temporary runner who shall be the player in the most recent batting order position who is not on base. However, as soon as this temporary runner is put out, scores, or the half-inning ends the temporary runner vanishes and the team is playing short handed and will take an out when the vacant spot comes up. If the team is already playing with 8 before the injury and cannot provide 8 on defense they will forfeit the game when they go on defense.

Never seen it happen but this would set up a scenario where a team could finish the game and win with only seven players. Tie game in the bottom of seventh home team playing with 8 due to earlier injury. Batter hits lead off triple but is injured sliding safely into 3B. Temporary runner comes in. Next pitch is a passed ball and temporary runner comes home game over. Had the visitors held the runner at third base and got the three outs they would win the game via forfeit when home could not field eight on defense for the top of the eighth.

In ASA the game is a forfeit as soon as home cannot provide a legal sub for injured runner and already playing short handed.

[UmpireErnie]

So now my above post makes me wonder about another hypothetical play...

Visitors playing with 8 in tie game top of the seventh. Same deal..lead off triple but runner hurt sliding safely into 3B. By 3-3-8 the temporary runner comes in.

Apparently we have to play out the top of the seventh unless the injured players spot in the lineup comes back around before we have an inevitable forfeit. I guess the rule buys the visitors in this situation a little time time come up with an available player but baring that unlikely event home is going to win because visitors only have seven players.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

So now my above post makes me wonder about another hypothetical play...

Visitors playing with 8 in tie game top of the seventh. Same deal..lead off triple but runner hurt sliding safely into 3B. By 3-3-8 the temporary runner comes in.

Apparently we have to play out the top of the seventh unless the injured players spot in the lineup comes back around before we have an inevitable forfeit. I guess the rule buys the visitors in this situation a little time time come up with an available player but baring that unlikely event home is going to win because visitors only have seven players.

I don't agree. Once the temporary runner is gone, the team is down to 7.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

See also NFHS 3-3-8..

This NFHS exception allows a runner who is hurt while running bases to be replaced by a temporary runner who shall be the player in the most recent batting order position who is not on base. However, as soon as this temporary runner is put out, scores, or the half-inning ends the temporary runner vanishes and the team is playing short handed and will take an out when the vacant spot comes up. If the team is already playing with 8 before the injury and cannot provide 8 on defense they will forfeit the game when they go on defense.

Never seen it happen but this would set up a scenario where a team could finish the game and win with only seven players. Tie game in the bottom of seventh home team playing with 8 due to earlier injury. Batter hits lead off triple but is injured sliding safely into 3B. Temporary runner comes in. Next pitch is a passed ball and temporary runner comes home game over. Had the visitors held the runner at third base and got the three outs they would win the game via forfeit when home could not field eight on defense for the top of the eighth.

In ASA the game is a forfeit as soon as home cannot provide a legal sub for injured runner and already playing short handed.

I don't think you're reading that right. I think what you are seeing is that it says if it a team cannot provide 8 players in the line up the game is over. If they provide 8, the extra spot is an out except that if they go from 9 to 8 due to a runner getting hurt, then they may use a temporary runner.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

I don't think you're reading that right. I think what you are seeing is that it says if it a team cannot provide 8 players in the line up the game is over. If they provide 8, the extra spot is an out except that if they go from 9 to 8 due to a runner getting hurt, then they may use a temporary runner.

The intent might be different than the literal wording.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The intent might be different than the literal wording.

It usually is . That said I don't think you can read this any other way:

g. cannot provide 8 players (FP) in the batting order to finish the game. An out is called in that spot of the batting order (7.4.1). If that player has safely reached base, then the most recent batter not on base is allowed to run for that player, until that player is put out, scores, or the half-inning ends.

An out is called in ***that spot*** of the batting order.
Which spot is referred to here? It clearly means the 9th spot. Because it's the only open spot (forfeit if they cannot provide 8).
If ***that player*** has safely reached base, then ...
Which player is referred to here? The only thing to refer back to is the previous sentence's that spot.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by youngump

I don't think you're reading that right. I think what you are seeing is that it says if it a team cannot provide 8 players in the line up the game is over. If they provide 8, the extra spot is an out except that if they go from 9 to 8 due to a runner getting hurt, then they may use a temporary runner.

Aha! What I had breezed by were the first words of 3-3-8. The "temporary runner" only applies when the team has a full compliment of players but has no available substitutes. It dosen't apply if the team is already playing short.

I feel better that seemed pretty wacked!