Obstruction-rundown

[jmkupka]

Think I tanked this one...
Men's modified. No outs. R1 on 1B. Grounder to F8. R1 rounds 2B and is OBS by F6. F8 fires to 3B and starts a rundown. After a while, R1 is tagged out sliding into 2B. "Dead ball, obstruction, I have the runner protected right here (2B)"

R2 is standing on 2B at the time. Fielder tags R1 (I make my call), then R2. I call R2 out because the lead runner owns the base.

How can I call an out on a runner when I just called dead ball?

I thought it was just bad base running by R2, since the rundown gave him time to see R1 might have to come back to 2B.

Is this textbook "another runner having been affected by the OBS" and send him back to 1B?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Think I tanked this one...
Men's modified. No outs. R1 on 1B. Grounder to F8. R1 rounds 2B and is OBS by F6. F8 fires to 3B and starts a rundown. After a while, R1 is tagged out sliding into 2B. "Dead ball, obstruction, I have the runner protected right here (2B)"

R2 is standing on 2B at the time. Fielder tags R1 (I make my call), then R2. I call R2 out because the lead runner owns the base.

How can I call an out on a runner when I just called dead ball?

I thought it was just bad base running by R2, since the rundown gave him time to see R1 might have to come back to 2B.

Is this textbook "another runner having been affected by the OBS" and send him back to 1B?

Yes, you put BR back on first in this scenario.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Think I tanked this one...

....Is this textbook "another runner having been affected by the OBS" and send him back to 1B?

You answered your own question......

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Yes, you put BR back on first in this scenario.

Why? If it were the other end of the run-down (3B), you advance the runner to home and award the OBS runner the base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Why? If it were the other end of the run-down (3B), you advance the runner to home and award the OBS runner the base.

Is it possible you read the OP wrong?

He's got the lead runner protected to 2nd base.

If he had the lead runner protected to 3rd, it would be different, BR would stay at 2nd.

[jmkupka]

Completely agree that I blew the opportunity to get both parts of the OBS correct, but is there any validity to the thought that R2 had plenty of time to decide to return to 1B?

If not, and if R2 knows the OBS rule (better than I do, apparently), he knows that since R1 is protected between the two bases, he (R2) has a free trip to 2B, and the worst that could happen is getting sent back to 1B.

That being said, since R2 is "a runner also affected by the OBS", could F5 conceivably break off from the rundown (for whatever reason), and attempt to put out R2 coming into 2B, and have R2 be protected?

Or am I just burned out from a loong season?

[Altor]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

he (R2) has a free trip to 2B, and the worst that could happen is getting sent back to 1B.

No he doesn't have a free trip. R2 is not protected. If the defense gives up on the rundown and tags R2 between bases, he's out. Or, say R1 makes it back to 2B, and the defense tags R2 while both are standing on the base, R2 is out.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Altor

No he doesn't have a free trip. R2 is not protected. If the defense gives up on the rundown and tags R2 between bases, he's out. Or, say R1 makes it back to 2B, and the defense tags R2 while both are standing on the base, R2 is out.

I'm not so sure about this. Let me be a little absurd to illustrate my problem with it. Obvious double with R1 at first. As R1 nears the shortstop area they get in a little bit of a defugality and the shortstop carries him back to second where R1 is standing. R1 is tagged while on the base. I'm pretty sure in the extreme case I'd negate the obstruction. And if I can do it there, then I'd say it follows I can do it here. (Not really clear that one should, but still.)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I'm not so sure about this. Let me be a little absurd to illustrate my problem with it. Obvious double with R1 at first. As R1 nears the shortstop area they get in a little bit of a defugality and the shortstop carries him back to second where R1 is standing. R1 is tagged while on the base. I'm pretty sure in the extreme case I'd negate the obstruction. And if I can do it there, then I'd say it follows I can do it here. (Not really clear that one should, but still.)

Your case is different, in that in yours BR IS affected by the OBS. Had there been no OBS, R1 would have attained 3rd (or home ... your judgement), and R1 would have attained 2nd. So you award R1 2nd as well.

In his, R1 was protected only to 2nd - had the defense given up on R1 and gone after BR at 2nd, BR would be out.

The only reason BR is not out in the OP is that the play was killed when the OBS'd runner was tagged. Since OBS'd runner only gets 2nd, and you can't rule an out on this play because the defense didn't achieve one before play was killed, the only place to put BR is first.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Your case is different, in that in yours BR IS affected by the OBS.

That doesn't really seem right. In the OP, BR was certainly affected by the obstruction. Absent the obstruction he'd have been standing on first base.

Or to take it further, in the OP the umpire had the runner protected to 2B, but it could have been the kind of rundown where he was protected to third. Are you saying that if the runner is protected to third but makes it back to second and then BR is tagged out while also occupying second that you would protect the BR?

[jmkupka]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

... you can't rule an out on this play because the defense didn't achieve one before play was killed, the only place to put BR is first.

By this you mean it wasn't me that killed it; it was dead the instant he was put out at 2B (that is to say, there was no possibility of me pausing a second and seeing F6 tag R2 for the out). Correct?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

By this you mean it wasn't me that killed it; it was dead the instant he was put out at 2B (that is to say, there was no possibility of me pausing a second and seeing F6 tag R2 for the out). Correct?

Correct.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Is it possible you read the OP wrong?

He's got the lead runner protected to 2nd base.

If he had the lead runner protected to 3rd, it would be different, BR would stay at 2nd.

No, I read it correctly. I'm just asking why? If the rulebook scenario moves an undeserving runner forward, why would they move a trailing runner backward?

[EsqUmp]

Out of curiosity, how "big" was the obstruction at 2nd base and how far from 3rd base was the lead runner when he pulled up to start going back toward 2nd base?

[EsqUmp]

8-5-b-2