1st and 3rd rundown play

[illiniwek8]

Ok..situation is runners on 1st and 3rd.....runner on 1st takes of to get into rundown pitcher steps off......and throws to second baseman the runner on 1st backs up straight towards the outfield, actually he goes back to the grass (out of the baseline in my opinion to avoid being played on). The officials who called the play did not call this runner out because they said he was establishing a baseline. Is this right? I say he is out for being out of the baseline once a play is made on him.

now.......how bout this.........

same situation....the runner on 1st takes his lead and goes directly toward the outfield, in fact, this same official says he can go all the way to the outfield fence if he so wishes to get into a rundown...then...once a play is made on him...he has to run directly to 1st or 2nd. Does this make sense? He says that the runner establishes the baseline.

[DG]

Originally posted by illiniwek8
Ok..situation is runners on 1st and 3rd.....runner on 1st takes of to get into rundown pitcher steps off......and throws to second baseman the runner on 1st backs up straight towards the outfield, actually he goes back to the grass (out of the baseline in my opinion to avoid being played on). The officials who called the play did not call this runner out because they said he was establishing a baseline. Is this right? I say he is out for being out of the baseline once a play is made on him.

now.......how bout this.........

same situation....the runner on 1st takes his lead and goes directly toward the outfield, in fact, this same official says he can go all the way to the outfield fence if he so wishes to get into a rundown...then...once a play is made on him...he has to run directly to 1st or 2nd. Does this make sense? He says that the runner establishes the baseline.

Skunk in the outfield has been played out here before. The baseline matters when he is advancing to a base and steps more than 3 feet out of a direct line to avoid a tag. The position where the runner was standing when he "takes off to get in a rundown" is the beginning of his baseline. If he gets out of it, to avoid a tag, he is out. Now if he goes directly to the outfield (skunk play) he has not moved toward 2B yet, so until he does there is no basepath. If he ever makes amove toward 2B, that's his basepath, much like when a runner advancing past first turns and takes a step toward 2B, wherever he is, that is his basepath and he can't take it back.

[Kaliix]

In your first play, if the 2nd baseman was advancing toward to the runner to tag him, once he took his second step towards the outfield, I have an out. He went more than three feet out of his baseline to avoid a tag.

In the second situation, if no play is being made on the runner, let him run to the outfield wall. Until a play is being made on him, he can run wherever he wants and establishes his own baseline.

Originally posted by illiniwek8
Ok..situation is runners on 1st and 3rd.....runner on 1st takes of to get into rundown pitcher steps off......and throws to second baseman the runner on 1st backs up straight towards the outfield, actually he goes back to the grass (out of the baseline in my opinion to avoid being played on). The officials who called the play did not call this runner out because they said he was establishing a baseline. Is this right? I say he is out for being out of the baseline once a play is made on him.

now.......how bout this.........

same situation....the runner on 1st takes his lead and goes directly toward the outfield, in fact, this same official says he can go all the way to the outfield fence if he so wishes to get into a rundown...then...once a play is made on him...he has to run directly to 1st or 2nd. Does this make sense? He says that the runner establishes the baseline.

[jicecone]

Originally posted by DG

Skunk in the outfield has been played out here before. The baseline matters when he is advancing to a base and steps more than 3 feet out of a direct line to avoid a tag. The position where the runner was standing when he "takes off to get in a rundown" is the beginning of his baseline. If he gets out of it, to avoid a tag, he is out. Now if he goes directly to the outfield (skunk play) he has not moved toward 2B yet, so until he does there is no basepath. If he ever makes amove toward 2B, that's his basepath, much like when a runner advancing past first turns and takes a step toward 2B, wherever he is, that is his basepath and he can't take it back.

DG,

The baseline is established ONLY when a play is being made on the runner, at that point it is a direct line from where the runner is , to the bag. It seems as though you are saying that , however the second part of your statement about the runner rounding first and stepping towards second sounded confusing. This will also require a fielder to be playing on the runner. The baseline is not established by direction unless there is a play on the runner.

[DG]

Originally posted by jicecone

DG,

The baseline is established ONLY when a play is being made on the runner, at that point it is a direct line from where the runner is , to the bag. It seems as though you are saying that , however the second part of your statement about the runner rounding first and stepping towards second sounded confusing. This will also require a fielder to be playing on the runner. The baseline is not established by direction unless there is a play on the runner.

If the runner runs past 1B 30 feet, and then turns and runs toward 2B, his baseline is from 30 feet past 1B to 2B and if he moves more than 3 feet from that baseline to avoid a tag he is out. My point is that wherever he is, RCF wall, or 30 feet down the line past 1B, when he commits to 2B his baseline is a line from where he is to where he is going.

[illiniwek8]

Ok, thanks for the input....so the thing here is where the runner is at the time the second baseman receives the ball and begins to make a play on him....wherever the runner is at this time.....he has to run in a line either to second or back to first.......if he deviates more than 3 feet to either side.....he is out? Thanks for the insight.....this clears things up.

[Dave Hensley]

Originally posted by DG
If the runner runs past 1B 30 feet, and then turns and runs toward 2B, his baseline is from 30 feet past 1B to 2B and if he moves more than 3 feet from that baseline to avoid a tag he is out. My point is that wherever he is, RCF wall, or 30 feet down the line past 1B, when he commits to 2B his baseline is a line from where he is to where he is going.

It really isn't "when he commits to 2B" that defines his baseline, it is, as jcecone stated, when a tag play is attempted on him.

[largeone59]

the baseline rule is a poorly worded rule in OBR and people think that the baseline is a line that goes directly from one base to another.

FED clears up the misconception with this in the rule book:

8-4-2-a NOTE: When a play is being made on a runner or batter-runner, he establishes his baseline as directly between his position and the base toward which he is moving.

[DG]

Originally posted by Dave Hensley

It really isn't "when he commits to 2B" that defines his baseline, it is, as jcecone stated, when a tag play is attempted on him.

Semantics. I sincerely doubt that once he commits to 2B he is not going to run around in circles until played upon.

[Tim C]

What is funny about your example is that Evans uses a player running around the mound in circles as one of his examples.

I think we kill Skunk in the Outfield about 10 times each season.

[DG]

Originally posted by Tim C
What is funny about your example is that Evans uses a player running around the mound in circles as one of his examples.

I think we kill Skunk in the Outfield about 10 times each season.

Don't leave me hanging. What does Evans say about the running around the mound example?

I have never witnessed a skunk in the outfield, as an umpire, spectator or coach. How do you kill a skunk?