NCAA Kills the Scissors

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by PATRICK

I have never heard of anyone breaking their arm using the Davis.

I've used it since '09 and haven't had an issue.

This is the oft-cited example that happened to Davis himself. It's also a good example of the importance of keeping your entire body behind the catcher when possible.
Umpire takes ball off arm | MLB.com

Broken bones are probably more common in baseball. I don't know enough baseball guys to have secondhand experience with that injury. I've been hit twice in maybe 100 games since I started using it: once in the fingers and one sharp foul tip to the face. I definitely got hit more doing heel-toe, probably because I did not stay as locked in through the entire pitch and my base was wider.

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by teebob21

This is the oft-cited example that happened to Davis himself. It's also a good example of the importance of keeping your entire body behind the catcher when possible.
Umpire takes ball off arm | MLB.com

Broken bones are probably more common in baseball. I don't know enough baseball guys to have secondhand experience with that injury. I've been hit twice in maybe 100 games since I started using it: once in the fingers and one sharp foul tip to the face. I definitely got hit more doing heel-toe, probably because I did not stay as locked in through the entire pitch and my base was wider.

It looked bruised badly, but not broken.

You cannot work the slot properly and keep your body behind the catcher!

[EsqUmp]

Getting hit there has absolutely nothing to do with working a GD stance. With the exception of working the scissors or if you hump the catcher like Phil Cuzzi, anyone could have taken that hit.

In 12 years of working a GD, I have not sustained any real injury or substantial pain getting hit. Maybe I'm just lucky. The one time I got drilled in the hand is when my evaluator had me move out of the GD to a ASA-clone style heal-toe.

[Rich]

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

No, I won't, but I wouldn't wear one of those anyway. Those "helmets" were not designed for umpires, but hockey goal tenders. You might notice, they don't wear hats in hockey, either.

I'm meeting a friend tonight who ended up in rehab for over 6 months thanks to one of them.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm meeting a friend tonight who ended up in rehab for over 6 months thanks to one of them.

Care to share what happened? I have thought of using a bucket but haven't made a decision.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

I suppose that is one way to look at it. My view is a bit different.

Every rule book that has an umpire section defines the umpire uniform (and equipment), so far as I know. Some parts are optional (chest protector, for example), some parts have alternate versions (different color combinations), some parts are required. Every one I know about requires a hat as a mandated part of the uniform.

Until that is changed, the desire to wear a different style mask/helmet that is designed to NOT have a hat simply doesn't meet the requirement. Just like a catcher's mask without a throat protector. So, either work to change the rule, or convince the manufacturers to design one that complies. Until then, the rule and the helmet are incompatible.

We have elected to be the enforcers of the rules as they apply to the game; that hat is part of the rules, like it or not.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Care to share what happened? I have thought of using a bucket but haven't made a decision.

Baseball. Took a pitch in the forehead. No give to the mask/helmet, caused a whiplash type of effect on his neck.

Tonight, told me he has gone back to the mask, but every time he takes a hit, there are more problems. Took a hit Wednesday and cannot work until Sunday at the earliest.

Prior to the original hit, he had worked ASA, NFHS, NCAA & ISF ball without incident for over 20 years. He did not move to the hockey-style mask until he started working baseball.

[bluejay]

I only can think of one softball official in this area that wears the hockey mask so I don't know of any injuries here. However, in a MLB game a few months ago I watched a catcher with the hockey mask take two off the helmet. He had to leave the game after the second hit. It was obvious to me that the helmet had no "give". It just stayed right in place. The mask should be able to absorb and move or even get knocked off. The helmet will not do that.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by bluejay

I only can think of one softball official in this area that wears the hockey mask so I don't know of any injuries here. However, in a MLB game a few months ago I watched a catcher with the hockey mask take two off the helmet. He had to leave the game after the second hit. It was obvious to me that the helmet had no "give". It just stayed right in place. The mask should be able to absorb and move or even get knocked off. The helmet will not do that.

OTOH, Joe Mauer took a foul ball off his traditional catcher's mask, suffered a concussion, and had to give up catching.

Is there any data (rather than anecdotes) about the relative safety of the hockey-style helmet v. traditional mask?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

OTOH, Joe Mauer took a foul ball off his traditional catcher's mask, suffered a concussion, and had to give up catching.

Is there any data (rather than anecdotes) about the relative safety of the hockey-style helmet v. traditional mask?

I don't think there is any doubt it provides as much if not more protection that a traditional. It is effect on the head and neck of providing that protection.

Catchers wear their masks tighter than umpires as there is more movement in their job. That again, there it the big leather mitt that helps with their protection.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

As an arbiter, one who is entrusted to apply the rules as they are written, you are correct. I will conform to the REQUIRED uniform. A UNIFORM is just that, UNIFORM. It isn't called an ARBITRARY for a reason.

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

You don't have to conform. You do have a choice. You can do baseball where anything goes.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PATRICK

You don't have to conform. You do have a choice. You can do baseball where anything goes.

Thank goodness.

[texump]

There have been some very successful NCAA softball umpires who used the scissors.

It would be interesting to find out what "studies" the SUP has to show the increase in injuries and inconsistent strike zones.