"motion" from the pitcher?

[Little Jimmy]

Talking about this yesterday in between games. Utrip tourney but I do believe Fed, ASA, etc have similar wording in their books. Wondered what you might say.

Pitcher had a motion which seemed "odd" (I know, odd doesn't mean illegal). Hands apart as she gets on plate. Pivot foot on and non pivot toe on plate with heel raised. Pause, then hands together at chest. Then hands drop to thighs while she leans back (no step back). Then hands (still together) raise slowly above head, then slowly to thighs, then slowly above head again, then hands separate on the way down, with forward motion beginning and pitch is released.

I'm on the bases and as much as the motion throws me off for awhile I don't think this is illegal. After the game I read the rule and USSSA 6-1-E-1 speaks of pitch beginning when hands separate or "the pitcher makes any motion that is part of the windup." So my question is... is there any motion that the pitcher would use (with the hands together) that could be considered illegal?

[jmkupka]

With all those twists & turns I see, as long as the feet don't lose contact with the PP and the hands don't separate (without starting the release), there's nothing illegal.

[Dakota]

This is legal in ASA et at, but illegal in NFHS, and USSSA, since both start the pitch when the windup motion begins, not just when the hands separate. This would violate the stopping and reversing direction part of the pitching rule.

[Little Jimmy]

Dakota... This is legal in ASA et at, but illegal in NFHS, and USSSA, since both start the pitch when the windup motion begins, not just when the hands separate. This would violate the stopping and reversing direction part of the pitching rule.

Taken literally, it would seem that just about any motion used by the pitcher without immediately pitching would be illegal. Example (modified version of OP): Hands apart as she gets on plate. Pivot foot on and non pivot toe on plate with heel raised. Pause, then hands together at chest. Pause again. Then hands drop to thighs while she leans back (no step back). Then hands (still together) raise slowly above head, slight pause and then separation with movement toward plate and release.

This motion is more straightforward than the OP, and seems relatively common. But if this motion is considered windup, then she has certainly stopped and reversed. Would you call this pitch illegal under Utrip or Fed?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Taken literally, it would seem that just about any motion used by the pitcher without immediately pitching would be illegal. Example (modified version of OP): Hands apart as she gets on plate. Pivot foot on and non pivot toe on plate with heel raised. Pause, then hands together at chest. Pause again. Then hands drop to thighs while she leans back (no step back). Then hands (still together) raise slowly above head, slight pause and then separation with movement toward plate and release.

This motion is more straightforward than the OP, and seems relatively common. But if this motion is considered windup, then she has certainly stopped and reversed. Would you call this pitch illegal under Utrip or Fed?

Fed and U-trip are less literal than ASA as to when the pitch begins.(Well, less literal wrt motion before hands separate.) Simply put, it is umpire judgment if the motion is the beginning of her windup. If all this stopping and starting is to (or has the effect of) keeping the batters off balance, then I would likely judge it as illegal under Fed/U-trip. But, as I said, the rule is not cut and dried, so judgment is required.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Talking about this yesterday in between games. Utrip tourney but I do believe Fed, ASA, etc have similar wording in their books. Wondered what you might say.

Pitcher had a motion which seemed "odd" (I know, odd doesn't mean illegal). Hands apart as she gets on plate. Pivot foot on and non pivot toe on plate with heel raised. Pause, then hands together at chest. Then hands drop to thighs while she leans back (no step back). Then hands (still together) raise slowly above head, then slowly to thighs, then slowly above head again, then hands separate on the way down, with forward motion beginning and pitch is released.

I'm on the bases and as much as the motion throws me off for awhile I don't think this is illegal. After the game I read the rule and USSSA 6-1-E-1 speaks of pitch beginning when hands separate or "the pitcher makes any motion that is part of the windup." So my question is... is there any motion that the pitcher would use (with the hands together) that could be considered illegal?

This part "Then hands (still together) raise slowly above head, then slowly to thighs, then slowly above head again, "
does seem like a reversal of the motion, I think illegal in HS & USSSA.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

This part "Then hands (still together) raise slowly above head, then slowly to thighs, then slowly above head again, "
does seem like a reversal of the motion, I think illegal in HS & USSSA.

Jimmy, did you ever get confirmation of this for USSSA?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by CecilOne
This part "Then hands (still together) raise slowly above head, then slowly to thighs, then slowly above head again, "
does seem like a reversal of the motion, I think illegal in HS & USSSA.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Jimmy, did you ever get confirmation of this for USSSA?