giving the situation to new pitcher

[GoRedSox]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Honestly, the only place I've seen it is in Little League. And it's not something that is taught at LL clinics in our area. It's just that some LL volunteer umpires don't bother to attend those clinics, don't have league UICs who teach what is proper, etc., and those umpires think it's required as a courtesy.

But in softball here under ASA, NFHS, PONY, etc., I can't recall ever seeing an umpire give the situation, nor a coach complain when it isn't done.

It's simple: the game situation is something the coach should tell his/her new pitcher when he/she makes the change. If asked about the count and outs, I'll answer, and it's usually the catcher who does the asking. If not asked, I will give the count before I say Play if there is a batter in the middle of an at-bat. That's about it.

Manny, I have seen it serveral times while during tournments in MD, why they do it I have do idea, I guess I shoud ask next time.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by GoRedSox

Manny, I have seen it serveral times while during tournments in MD, why they do it I have do idea, I guess I shoud ask next time.

Must be some of those MD umpires.

It may be one of those old school things that umpires remember seeing when they played ball as kids, kinda like showing two fists with a full count, and have never been told we don't do that anymore.

[Little Jimmy]

Must be some of those MD umpires.

Hold on now, no need for a border war .

I've probably worked in 10 or more states over the years and this practice shows up everywhere. No rhyme or reason. I agree with BretMan about some umpires wanting to interject themselves. When I'm behind the plate and I see my partner hovering around the new pitcher, I know what he's about to do. I want to wave a red flag and tell him to get back to his position in the field.

[Manny A]

I've actually seen it more often in baseball. I wonder if that's just a baseball thing that some dual-hatted and transitioning umpires brought over to the softball side. I haven't been to a baseball clinic in many years, so I don't know if it's something that is endorsed as a courtesy on the grassed diamond.

[BretMan]

Yes, I see it a lot in baseball too (or, saw it a lot, as I've transitioned almost exclusively to fastpitch the past couple of seasons).

But, no, it was never taught to me and I've never seen it in any baseball umpire manual. In fact, on some of the baseball forums that I frequent I've seen threads about this topic and, just like here, guys are against it.

A true story from my high school baseball days...I'm working the bases and there is a pitching change. Warm-ups get thrown I get back into "C" position snd get ready to go. Then I notice that the plate umpire is just standing there staring at me.

I can't figure out what's going on so I give my partner a subtle "what's going on?" signal. He points at the pitcher and says, "Go tell him".

Huh? Go tell who, what? I shrug my shoulders and he points at the pitcher again and says, "Go tell him the situation". Then I figure it out. He thinks that it's my responsibility to inform the pitcher how many outs there are and what runners are on base!

I kind of waved him off, like "I'm not going to do that, let's just play ball". But he points again and says to inform the pitcher. And it looks like he's not going to re-start the game until I do!

So, I took a few steps toward the mound, leaned in and said in my quietest voice, so nobody would know what I was saying except me and the pitcher, "Okay, pitch, are you ready? Alright, here we go now".

Apparently that was enough, because with that my partner put his mask back on, got back behind the plate and finally got the game going again.

[jmkupka]

I confess I do use the fist-bumping to indicate full count, but ONLY as a BU when my PU partner comes to me for the count. Obviously never as a PU.
It's easier to see from a distance, and just as discrete.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I've actually seen it more often in baseball. I wonder if that's just a baseball thing that some dual-hatted and transitioning umpires brought over to the softball side. I haven't been to a baseball clinic in many years, so I don't know if it's something that is endorsed as a courtesy on the grassed diamond.

It is only the practice of bad baseball umpires.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Rich

It is only the practice of bad baseball umpires.

That's what I suspected.

I still believe that at some point in the past, it was a common thing, and it's being kept alive by umpires who learned from those old-timers who did it.

[vcblue]

I was taught this by an older old school umpire way back when. I did it one year but after moving up to the 16/18A circuit I learned fast that i was taught wrong. I think this comes from the older umpires that only do rec. They work with a 1st year umpire and that umpire sees the example for older umpire and thinks it must be a mechanic.

[bsnalex]

I wouldn't give new pitchers any other information other than the count when the batter steps back into the batters box-- and that's to refresh everyone as a courtesy.

Surely it's the team and manager's jobs to remind themselves where the play is going, runners on, etc