Sharing what I learn here...

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Instead of yelling back at you, I'll let you try to support that by rule. What rule are you using to make the claim that interfering with a fielder trying to field a ball that is currently in foul ground (and, as you say, "has a chance to become fair") is an out.

As I started with above, I came into this discussion believing you were right about this. I still mostly think you are but that the book could be a lot better on this.
That said, let me play devil's advocate for a moment to illustrate the problem I have with the way this is written. If the rule is meant to be interpreted the same way, then why is there a difference between the rules:
8-2-F: When the batter runner interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball
8-7-J-1: When the runner interferes with a fielder attempting to field a FAIR batted ball. [Emphasis added]
(references from 2005 book, hopefully the haven't moved or changed)
[Also see the definition of a foul ball which only references runner]

You could argue that the definition of making a play saves you (it can't be a play if it's an attempt to field a foul ball since that's not an attempt to make an out.) But this has two problems. One you have the slow pitch third strike problem. And two you have the problem that it renders the rule about a ball being foul when the defense is interfered with superfluous (unless you consider the first the solution to the second).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

One you have the slow pitch third strike problem.

Don't understand your point here.



It all comes down to a foul ball is a foul and dead ball, so there is no possibility of INT. What it "could" be is irrelevant.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't understand your point here.



It all comes down to a foul ball is a foul and dead ball, so there is no possibility of INT. What it "could" be is irrelevant.

My point is that if you say that fielding a batted ball from fair territory is not a play as you're way of getting out of the shortcoming in the book then you run into the problem that fielding a third strike in slow pitch before it can become fair is in fact an attempt to get a player out and is therefore a play.
On second thought, this doesn't matter much because the result will be the same either way. (Out for interference or out for striking out.)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

My point is that if you say that fielding a batted ball from fair territory is not a play as you're way of getting out of the shortcoming in the book then you run into the problem that fielding a third strike in slow pitch before it can become fair is in fact an attempt to get a player out and is therefore a play.
On second thought, this doesn't matter much because the result will be the same either way. (Out for interference or out for striking out.)

Forget the SP comment, it is irrelevant

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Forget the SP comment, it is irrelevant

The long dead thread lives again. I'm not sure what you mean by that though I agree it isn't particularly relevant.

If the thread is going to live on, let me ask it this way: I think we agree that if the ball is in foul territory and the batter runner runs into the fielder who is attempting to field it that we have a foul ball. Now suppose that happens and you make that call and after the game your partner asks you to back that up from the rulebook. What do you tell him or what do you say if he then shows you 8-2-F.

[bsnalex]

Ahem...allow me to throw my ISF ruleset in (that's what I always use because that's what British Softball uses...)

8.2.g.2 Batter-Runner is out when he interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.

It makes no distinction between a fair or fould batted ball. One could argue that a foul ball that appears to be rolling fair will have a F3 running hard at it to keep it foul because they know they won't have a play at first if it's fair, so the interference remains on the foul ball.

Incidentally, the ruleset also mentions that the runner may run beyond 3ft from the baseline to avoid causing interference.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by bsnalex

Ahem...allow me to throw my ISF ruleset in (that's what I always use because that's what British Softball uses...)

8.2.g.2 Batter-Runner is out when he interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.

It makes no distinction between a fair or fould batted ball. One could argue that a foul ball that appears to be rolling fair will have a F3 running hard at it to keep it foul because they know they won't have a play at first if it's fair, so the interference remains on the foul ball.

Incidentally, the ruleset also mentions that the runner may run beyond 3ft from the baseline to avoid causing interference.

So, Alex, if F3 is running hard at the ball to KEEP IT FOUL, how can there be interference of a PLAY (defined as an attempt to make an OUT)?? You have merely restated the conundrum created by an unspecific rule.

That is the crux of the issue.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by bsnalex

It makes no distinction between a fair or fould batted ball. One could argue that a foul ball that appears to be rolling fair will have a F3 running hard at it to keep it foul because they know they won't have a play at first if it's fair, so the interference remains on the foul ball.

One could also argue that the ball is Fair, until it is declared Foul.
A ball rolling in foul ground is not foul until it settles or is touched in foul territory.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm not sure it's ENTIRELY relevant - but the two rules you quoted are not equivalents anyway (one for BR, one for R) ... the first you quoted has to do with the BALL. The second has to do with A FIELDER.

They both have to do with fielders. I just mistyped the first one in copying it. (I also fixed it above)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

They both have to do with fielders. I just mistyped the first one in copying it. (I also fixed it above)

Got it. Deleted my reply.

[CecilOne]

hold for me later