Batting Out of Order, Volume 2

[MD Longhorn]

Had a kid bring up a scenario at a clinic that I thought was rather interesting. The initial situation is similar to the one being used in the other thread, so I'll convert it to be more like that one.

Correct batting order is B1, B2, B3, B4, etc.

B2 bats first and singles.
B1 bats next and singles, B2 to third.
B3 takes a pitch and the defense appeals.

No one is ruled out by the umpire, as the pitch to B3 legitimizes B1's batting out of order and the proper batter (B2) is on base ... so B3 should be up to bat.

Coach orders his pitcher to commit an illegal pitch. B2 scores, B1 to 2nd, ball 2 on the batter.

Situation A: The defensive coach NOW appeals B3 batting out of order.
Situation B: The defensive coach waits for one more pitch to B3 and appeals.
Situation C: The OFFENSIVE coach sends in B2 to bat and assume the 2-0 count.

Rulings?

[Andy]

I'm missing something.....

Once the first pitch to B3 happens legitimizing B1's at bat, and since B2 should be the proper batter but is on base, B3 (who is at bat and has taken a pitch) is the proper batter.

Why does an illegal pitch change anything and allow any further BOO appeals?
So....

A and B - Appeal denied, the batting order is correct

C - I'm not allowing this, along the lines of not allowing an illegal substitution.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

C - I'm not allowing this, along the lines of not allowing an illegal substitution.

And if you did without realizing it, B3 could be out if AB completed and properly appealed.

[MD Longhorn]

A&B - So... how is B3 the proper batter after B1 if B2 is no longer on base?

My answer to him was if A or B happened, the remedy is simply to put B2 into the batters box. And that C is REQUIRED, not just allowed, if the offense wants to avoid BOO.

Say B3 completes their at bat with a single... wasn't B3 out of order since B2 was the proper batter and was not on base when B3 hit the ball?

[RKBUmp]

B3 became the proper batter as B2 was on base and a pitch was thrown to B3. Dont see how B2 coming in to score could possibly reinstate a batting out of order situation.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

A&B - So... how is B3 the proper batter after B1 if B2 is no longer on base?

My answer to him was if A or B happened, the remedy is simply to put B2 into the batters box. And that C is REQUIRED, not just allowed, if the offense wants to avoid BOO.

Say B3 completes their at bat with a single... wasn't B3 out of order since B2 was the proper batter and was not on base when B3 hit the ball?

I'm going to disagree....we had the BOO appeal, we ruled on it, fixed it, game moves on from here. B3 is the proper batter. Since B3 is the proper batter, her status doesn't change as a result of the next pitch.

What if, instead of an illegal pitch, it was just a wild pitch that allowed B2 to score and B1 to advance? Does that change anything? I'm still not allowing another BOO appeal.

[vcblue]

If I am reading the OP correct we have nothing for all three of your situations after the 1st pitch legal or illegal to B3. Per ASA rule 7-2-4 you do not remove B2 from the base. That batter is simply skipped without penalty. B3 is the correct batter.

Think about it: Why would we penalize the offense when the defense missed the previous two BOOs?

[MD Longhorn]

Interesting take. I figured this one would be interesting.

What if there was never an initial appeal. What if, after two pitches, coach comes to you wanting to put B2 at the plate - after all, B1 was the previous batter and B2 is not currently on base. Or what if, after two pitches, the defensive coach appeals. Or what if, after B3 gets on base, the defensive coach appeals (and B2 was not on base at the END of B3's at bat).

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Interesting take. I figured this one would be interesting.

What if there was never an initial appeal. What if, after two pitches, coach comes to you wanting to put B2 at the plate - after all, B1 was the previous batter and B2 is not currently on base. Or what if, after two pitches, the defensive coach appeals. Or what if, after B3 gets on base, the defensive coach appeals (and B2 was not on base at the END of B3's at bat).

It doesn't matter whether she scored after the first pitch. Because B2 is on base at the time of the first pitch B3 becomes the legal batter and the Batter order continues on from there. You don't let the OC make the change

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by vcblue

It doesn't matter whether she scored after the first pitch. Because B2 is on base at the time of the first pitch B3 becomes the legal batter and the Batter order continues on from there. You don't let the OC make the change

I hear what you're saying... but during the normal course of action, do you write down who is on base at the beginning of each at bat? Lacking a college-level scorekeeper, do you think you could always puzzle that out from whatever the home team's mom or the JV coach's son happened to write down on the scoresheet? By the time this appeal comes, whoever it was that was on base at the beginning of the at bat is in the dugout.

[Andy]

It comes down to dealing with the BOO appeal at the time it is appealed.

If it's two pitches later and B2 is no longer on base, she goes into the batter's box and assumes the count. Rule on the appeal, fix it, move on.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Interesting take. I figured this one would be interesting.

What if there was never an initial appeal. What if, after two pitches, coach comes to you wanting to put B2 at the plate - after all, B1 was the previous batter and B2 is not currently on base. Or what if, after two pitches, the defensive coach appeals. Or what if, after B3 gets on base, the defensive coach appeals (and B2 was not on base at the END of B3's at bat).

Who gives a rat's ass? There is nothing to appeal, B3 is the batter and then B4 and then B5......

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by Andy

It comes down to dealing with the BOO appeal at the time it is appealed.

If it's two pitches later and B2 is no longer on base, she goes into the batter's box and assumes the count. Rule on the appeal, fix it, move on.

I have to disagree due to the rule I stated earlier. So the DC comes to you after the first pitch and tells you b3 is BOO. You tell them no because a pitch is thrown and because b2 is a bases she is skipped without penalty. Next pitch is wild and she scores. Are you then going to put her up to bat, assuming the count. This doesn't make sense.

In this sitch you have to enforce 7-2-4 on the pitch that made B3 legal and that is the first pitch.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by vcblue

I have to disagree due to the rule I stated earlier. So the DC comes to you after the first pitch and tells you b3 is BOO. You tell them no because a pitch is thrown and because b2 is a bases she is skipped without penalty. Next pitch is wild and she scores. Are you then going to put her up to bat, assuming the count. This doesn't make sense.

In this sitch you have to enforce 7-2-4 on the pitch that made B3 legal and that is the first pitch.

My post was in reference to the time of the BOO appeal.

If the initial appeal is not made until after two pitches and B2 has scored and is no longer on base, then she would be put into the box as the proper batter.

It comes down to: Where is B2 at the time of the appeal? On base or in the dugout?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Andy

My post was in reference to the time of the BOO appeal.

If the initial appeal is not made until after two pitches and B2 has scored and is no longer on base, then she would be put into the box as the proper batter.

It comes down to: Where is B2 at the time of the appeal? On base or in the dugout?

I think you're wrong on this and it's not that others are having trouble following what you're saying. The batting order is not changed by a denied BOO appeal it's changed by the first pitch legal or illegal. When the appeal happens after a pitch it is denied. The first pitch legalizes the former at bat and results immediately in a change to the batting order.