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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 01:29pm
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Run Scores?

NFHS Rules (a play from the Florida HS Finals)

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, two outs. Batter hits a short fly ball that F5 totally misjudges in the wind. Ball falls untouched on the line a foot in front of 3B. R1 advances and touches home plate. BR advances to 1B and touches and crosses the bag.

Then she (apparently) listened to the defensive team in the first base dugout and their vocal fans who were calling for a foul ball. She began walking back toward the plate area. F1 (not yet in the circle) throws to F3 who tags BR two steps on the home plate side of first.

Does the run score?
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 01:45pm
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BR safely reached 1B. Score the run.
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 01:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argodad View Post
NFHS Rules (a play from the Florida HS Finals)

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, two outs. Batter hits a short fly ball that F5 totally misjudges in the wind. Ball falls untouched on the line a foot in front of 3B. R1 advances and touches home plate. BR advances to 1B and touches and crosses the bag.

Then she (apparently) listened to the defensive team in the first base dugout and their vocal fans who were calling for a foul ball. She began walking back toward the plate area. F1 (not yet in the circle) throws to F3 who tags BR two steps on the home plate side of first.

Does the run score?
What was her coach doing??

Anyway, is there a case for obstruction?

Quote:
Rule: 2-36
Obstruction is the act of the defensive team member that hinders or impedes a batter's attempt to make contact with a pitched ball or that impedes the progress of a runner or batter-runner who is legally running bases, unless the fielder is in possession of the ball or is making the initial play on a batted ball. The act may be intentional or unintentional, physical or verbal.
If not, run does not score since the force was reinstated. (Cue the discussion about whether the BR is "forced".)
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Last edited by Dakota; Tue May 13, 2014 at 01:50pm.
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 02:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
What was her coach doing??
Yelling "Stay here! Stay here!"

Quote:
Anyway, is there a case for obstruction?
No.

Quote:
If not, run does not score since the force was reinstated. (Cue the discussion about whether the BR is "forced".)
Rule 9-1.1 Exceptions a and d indicate a difference between runners who were forced and a batter runner. Likewise, 2-24.4 talks about "reinstatement of force" applying to forced runners, does not mention the BR.

Call on the field (correct in my opinion) was that the "Run Scores."
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 02:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argodad View Post
Yelling "Stay here! Stay here!"

No.



Rule 9-1.1 Exceptions a and d indicate a difference between runners who were forced and a batter runner. Likewise, 2-24.4 talks about "reinstatement of force" applying to forced runners, does not mention the BR.

Call on the field (correct in my opinion) was that the "Run Scores."
I missed that one, Which game was that? (I have several on tape)
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 02:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by argodad View Post
NFHS Rules (a play from the Florida HS Finals)

R1 on 3B, R2 on 2B, two outs. Batter hits a short fly ball that F5 totally misjudges in the wind. Ball falls untouched on the line a foot in front of 3B. R1 advances and touches home plate. BR advances to 1B and touches and crosses the bag.
What about the rest of the story? Fair or foul?
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 03:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
What was her coach doing??

Anyway, is there a case for obstruction?
Perhaps - but since it wasn't mentioned I'm going to assume the umpire on the spot didn't believe so.

Quote:
If not, run does not score since the force was reinstated. (Cue the discussion about whether the BR is "forced".)
The rules regarding re-instating forces are in the section regarding runners. These same rules are not mirrored in the section regarding batter-runner (even though most rules ARE mirrored there). This indicates to me that there's nothing to reinstate here. BR HAS reached first base. The BR was not put out prior to reaching first base. I see no rules justification for nullifying this run. In any of the rulesets to be honest.
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 03:59pm
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As stated, assuming ball was fair.

No obstruction, it sounded more like just fans being fans and players being players...not trying to confuse the base runner (Uhhh...where was her
1b coach, anyway?)

No force and none should have been re-instated so yeah, run's in.
Weird for a Championship game...but weird is why we come here I guess :-)
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 04:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HugoTafurst View Post
I missed that one, Which game was that? (I have several on tape)
Creekside vs. Pembroke Pines 6A Semifinal.
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 04:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcannizzo View Post
What about the rest of the story? Fair or foul?
Fair ball (foul player). Hit on the line and actually bounced into the inside corner of the base. Strong breeze was blowing toward RF.
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 06:52pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
The rules regarding re-instating forces are in the section regarding runners. These same rules are not mirrored in the section regarding batter-runner (even though most rules ARE mirrored there). This indicates to me that there's nothing to reinstate here. BR HAS reached first base. The BR was not put out prior to reaching first base. I see no rules justification for nullifying this run. In any of the rulesets to be honest.
Seems to be the point.

The OP says nothing about the ball being in the circle, but that would not change the run decision.
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 07:51pm
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Originally Posted by CecilOne View Post
Seems to be the point.

The OP says nothing about the ball being in the circle, but that would not change the run decision.
Mentioned that because some observers thought that maybe she was out for a circle violation. Again, a timing play and the run would have scored.
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Old Tue May 13, 2014, 07:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sp279 View Post
Weird for a Championship game...but weird is why we come here I guess :-)
In the 1A Final (smallest schools, with some 7th and 8th graders on the rosters) a girl stole second, then was thrown out sprinting back to first. We didn't have any CLUE why she would have done that.
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Old Sun May 18, 2014, 10:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
What was her coach doing??
This is a good question. The player needs to listen to the coach, not the other team.
Anyway, is there a case for obstruction?

This would really depend on if the umpire heard a coach of players from the defensive team yelling with the intent to deceive the runner. Yes, if the players (field or bench) or the coaching staff are yelling to deceive the runner or batter runner it can be verbal obstruction. To call this you better be darn sure that the coaches or players were attempting to confuse or deceive the offensive team.

If not, run does not score since the force was reinstated. (Cue the discussion about whether the BR is "forced".)
What about this situation. 2 outs, bottom of the 7th inning, home team down 1 run. Runners at second and third. Batter hits a single to CF. Batter runner touches first base and the runner from 2nd is attempting to score. The batter-runner, after touching first base steps back toward home to see the game winning run score, The defense, knowing they can't get the runner at home, throws to F3, who tags the batter runner who is standing 3 feet in front of 1b (but who has already touched it), before the runner scores. What is the result? Does the defense win by a run, it is a tie game, or does the home team win with 2 runs in the bottom of the 7th.
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Old Mon May 19, 2014, 07:11am
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Originally Posted by chapmaja View Post
What about this situation. 2 outs, bottom of the 7th inning, home team down 1 run. Runners at second and third. Batter hits a single to CF. Batter runner touches first base and the runner from 2nd is attempting to score. The batter-runner, after touching first base steps back toward home to see the game winning run score, The defense, knowing they can't get the runner at home, throws to F3, who tags the batter runner who is standing 3 feet in front of 1b (but who has already touched it), before the runner scores. What is the result? Does the defense win by a run, it is a tie game, or does the home team win with 2 runs in the bottom of the 7th.
If they can make a throw to 1B to tag a RUNNER before the runner from 2B gets to the plate, they probably had time to throw home for a play.
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