That's Interference!

[MD Longhorn]

Nothing wrong with PU making this call, although like basketball - this is your partner's primary, so I'd hesitate half a second before calling it, in case he saw it the other way around. Worst thing you can have here is him calling INT and you calling OBS. Sounds like OBS to me too - but you don't want a blarge.

Coach deciding to hold the runner should not have an iota of bearing in whether you send this runner home or not - coach's decision was made AFTER the obstruction and was based on where that runner was and where the ball was at the time he made that decision.

Would she have scored absent the OBS - that's ALL that should matter to you.

[charliej47]

The runner was protected to 3rd base. She would have made home and added another run to the books but the coach decided to hold her so they could play another inning.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by charliej47

The runner was protected to 3rd base. She would have made home and added another run to the books but the coach decided to hold her so they could play another inning.

So, you're going to aid and abet the coach attempting to extend the game? Aren't you participating in an illegal act?

(Besides, what possible good can come from extending a blowout JV game?)

[charliej47]

I try to enforce the rules as written as I understand them. The runner was protected to her at least her next base which was 3rd.

It she had tried home and there had been a close call, She would have been safe under my understanding.

The fact that the coach chose to hold her on 3rd was the coach's decision.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by charliej47

I try to enforce the rules as written as I understand them. The runner was protected to her at least her next base which was 3rd.

It she had tried home and there had been a close call, She would have been safe under my understanding.

The fact that the coach chose to hold her on 3rd was the coach's decision.

So suppose you judged she would have made it to home, and when you announce the award, the coach at third wants to keep her there. WWYD?

[EsqUmp]

Just give the runners the damn bases they would have reached IN YOUR JUDGMENT had there been no obstruction.

Here is some food for though. Every second an average runner is impeded she loses at least 20 feet running. So if this runner was delayed for 2 seconds, ask yourself if you had given her 40 feet, would she have scored.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by charliej47

I try to enforce the rules as written as I understand them. The runner was protected to her at least her next base which was 3rd.

It she had tried home and there had been a close call, She would have been safe under my understanding.

The fact that the coach chose to hold her on 3rd was the coach's decision.

Yuck.

Please review this rule. Your enforcement is not correct. An obstructed runner does NOT have to attempt to reach the awarded base in order to be awarded that base.

If you were my umpire, and I was a coach - I would have my first baseman bearhug every hitter that hit an apparent triple or homer, and continue to hold her in front of first base. You would award first... after all, she didn't even try for second, right?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by charliej47

I try to enforce the rules as written as I understand them. The runner was protected to her at least her next base which was 3rd.

It she had tried home and there had been a close call, She would have been safe under my understanding.

The fact that the coach chose to hold her on 3rd was the coach's decision.

With obstruction, don't wait until the play is over to determine the award. Start making that decision at the time of the obstruction and stick to it. If you and your partner determined at the time of the obstruction, the award was to be home, that is the award you should make a the end of the play.

Waiting until the end of the play could bring too many more factors into play.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

With obstruction, don't wait until the play is over to determine the award. Start making that decision at the time of the obstruction and stick to it. If you and your partner determined at the time of the obstruction, the award was to be home, that is the award you should make a the end of the play.

Waiting until the end of the play could bring too many more factors into play.

Is there no such animal as post-obstruction evidence in softball?

Ground ball base hit to the outfield. BR is slightly hindered by F3 rounding first, and you immediately decide she probably wouldn't get second. But then F8 muffs the ball and it goes toward the fence. BR is thrown out at third on a close play. Are you going to rule her out since you probably wouldn't have even protected her to second, much less third?

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Ground ball base hit to the outfield. BR is slightly hindered by F3 rounding first, and you immediately decide she probably wouldn't get second. But then F8 muffs the ball and it goes toward the fence. BR is thrown out at third on a close play. Are you going to rule her out since you probably wouldn't have even protected her to second, much less third?

Yes, probably without a second thought. In fact, I made a similar call this weekend. BR hits a "likely double", and was obstructed near 1B. The cutoff throw from F9 was a weak duck, and BR tried to leg it out to 3B. OUUUUUUUUT on a laser beam toss from F4. There is no way the original hit was a triple; I was not protecting her to third.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Is there no such animal as post-obstruction evidence in softball?

Ground ball base hit to the outfield. BR is slightly hindered by F3 rounding first, and you immediately decide she probably wouldn't get second. But then F8 muffs the ball and it goes toward the fence. BR is thrown out at third on a close play. Are you going to rule her out since you probably wouldn't have even protected her to second, much less third?

IMO when you call OBS you should make an initial decision where to protect the runner to. The nice thing is you don't announce that decision to the rest of the world just yet so if presented with compelling evidence as the play progresses you can change your initial decision.

In your play I very possibly would have made an initial decision that BR was not going past 1B but then seeing how fast she is rounding 2B realize my initial decision was wrong and make the protection 2B. I'm not adding to the award based on F8 muffing the ball, that has nothing to do with the OBS.

Regardless I need to have a firm decision made prior to the play being made on the obstructed BR so I can be ready to handle that call properly. As I see this play in my mind based on your description I doubt I would have protected to 3B it does not sound like she hit a clean triple; frankly those are rare. So all I have is normal safe/out call. But let's say I had protected to 3B now on the tag my call is "Dead Ball!" followed by the award of 3B. If I'm still busy deciding where to protect BR I have a better than average chance of botching the call at 3B either with bad decision or bad mechanics.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Is there no such animal as post-obstruction evidence in softball?

Ground ball base hit to the outfield. BR is slightly hindered by F3 rounding first, and you immediately decide she probably wouldn't get second. But then F8 muffs the ball and it goes toward the fence. BR is thrown out at third on a close play. Are you going to rule her out since you probably wouldn't have even protected her to second, much less third?

Thank you for proving my point.

The misplay by F8 is a susequent play and has nothing to do with the obstruction. If my initial decision is that she was not going to make second, her protection is between first and second and if she is put out (absent any of the exceptions) between those bases, I'm awarding her first base. Once she advances beyond second base, she is on her own...she is attempting to advance based on the misplay and, in my judgement, would not have made third base if not obstructed.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Is there no such animal as post-obstruction evidence in softball?

Ground ball base hit to the outfield. BR is slightly hindered by F3 rounding first, and you immediately decide she probably wouldn't get second. But then F8 muffs the ball and it goes toward the fence. BR is thrown out at third on a close play. Are you going to rule her out since you probably wouldn't have even protected her to second, much less third?

Exactly; there is not. You make an initial judgment based solely on the basis of the play at the time of the obstruction, and you ignore subsequent alternate actions that aren't related to the obstruction.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Are you going to rule her out since you probably wouldn't have even protected her to second, much less third?

Yes... and so should you. Don't invent your own rules.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Would she have scored absent the OBS - that's ALL that should matter to you.

This is an interesting point. If the coach has a large lead and is holding his runners to one base on everything and then a runner gets obstructed between 2nd and 3rd I don't think I'm going to award home on that. She got the base she would have absent the obstruction. I also sense that I won't get any argument since the coach wasn't really trying to score her.