Annoyed...

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The problem is that you let it get to five. FIVE?!?! Wow.

The first time, if he's polite, he gets his rope and uses it up. If you didn't feel the need to tell him we aren't going to discuss judgement calls at the end of that, then a QUICK stop sign at the BEGINNING of the 2nd time out gets him that speech. Not the 3rd... not the 4th.... not the 5th.

Too much rope. FAR too much.

And after you said what you said, and he started up... toss him.

Does it matter to any of you if the discussions were about different things, e.g., banger at 2nd, why an IP, why an OBS, etc.?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Does it matter to any of you if the discussions were about different things, e.g., banger at 2nd, why an IP, why an OBS, etc.?

It depends. But in the OP, the coach was questioning "safe/out" judgment calls, not any rule interpretations.

I say it depends because I might entertain two or three rule questions from the same coach if he/she is cordial while asking. But after that, I'm going to warn the coach that this is a game, not a rules clinic, and that if he/she doesn't understand why certain rulings were made, he/she needs to take the time to open the rule book and learn.

And that's probably during a game in a rec league. High school JV? Those coaches should know better.

As for judgment calls like the banger, the coach may get away with one or two asks.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Does it matter to any of you if the discussions were about different things, e.g., banger at 2nd, why an IP, why an OBS, etc.?

It might, at least on a couple of those. Banger at 2nd is no different from any other judgement call...

If someone is really asking me "Why was that illegal" or "What did you see that made that obstruction", it's not an issue... but that's really completely different than coming out complaining or yelling that it wasn't illegal or it wasn't obstruction.

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Does it matter to any of you if the discussions were about different things, e.g., banger at 2nd, why an IP, why an OBS, etc.?

No rules type questions... all safes/outs that he didn't like

[Tru_in_Blu]

I worked a recent slow pitch game w/ a partner on the bases.

Runners on 1st & 2nd. Batter hits a slow ground ball up the middle that the pitcher missed. F4 & F6 begin to converge on the ball. I started up the 3rd base line and not expecting a throw to third, drifted to the holding zone.

Base umpire who was playing off F4's left shoulder to being with ended up calling the runner safe @ second. When I was looking at it from 100' away, it appeared that F6 had actually fielded the ball and managed to step on the base before the runner did. But there was a tangle of legs with 3 players around the base.

Defense came to me (of course) to ask for "an appeal" so I told them the BU made the call and they should ask him if he would/could check w/ his partner. The player, while walking back towards me, said "Yeah, he said we could check w/ you."

At this point I motioned for him to approach me and we discussed. I asked what he saw. During the live ball, it appeared that the runner had come off the base (I assume he thought he was out, despite a safe call). So I asked my partner if he saw the runner off the base after the call. He said yes. I asked if the defender was still standing on the base in possession of the ball. He said he thought so. Incandescent bulbs turn on instantly, while the flourescent bulbs take a bit longer.

A couple of innings later between innings, he tried to ask be about fielders having "dual possession" of the ball. I had no idea where this was going, and simply told him that only 1 fielder could possess the ball. Maybe in football or basketball there can be dual possession, but we weren't going to have a jump ball @ second base.

Second game, I'm on the bases. Two runners on and the batter hits a line drive to left field. As I'm coming inside, my runner @ first is already a third of the way to second base, so I take a peek at the ball. Visually, it appeared to hit the crossbar of the top of th fence, which is covered with that yellow plastic drainage pipe stuff. But to me, the deciding factor was the CONK! and the ball bouncing directly back onto the field. Partner calls it a home run. Our league decided that they like to run out their HRs, so I follow BR around towards third.

Of course, the defense is now asking for him to check w/ his partner again. At least this time, he approached me properly. He asks what I saw, and I told him. He claims he saw the netting over the fence move first and decides to stay w/ the HR call.

This umpire is in his 4th or 5th year now. Yup, I'm annoyed.

[CecilOne]

"Incandescent bulbs turn on instantly, while the fluorescent bulbs take a bit longer."


I like that! Let's hope we are incandescent.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

At this point I motioned for him to approach me and we discussed. I asked what he saw. During the live ball, it appeared that the runner had come off the base (I assume he thought he was out, despite a safe call). So I asked my partner if he saw the runner off the base after the call. He said yes. I asked if the defender was still standing on the base in possession of the ball. He said he thought so. Incandescent bulbs turn on instantly, while the flourescent bulbs take a bit longer.

I'm a little lost here. You're saying that after you got him to conference with you about whether F6 possessed the ball while touching the bag before the runner arrived that you instead discussed whether the runner left the base while the fielder was standing on the base (though presumably without a tag, you'd have nothing there.) When all these lightbulbs were turning on what ended up coming out of that play and who had to be ejected?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I'm a little lost here. You're saying that after you got him to conference with you about whether F6 possessed the ball while touching the bag before the runner arrived that you instead discussed whether the runner left the base while the fielder was standing on the base (though presumably without a tag, you'd have nothing there.) When all these lightbulbs were turning on what ended up coming out of that play and who had to be ejected?

I read it the way you did as well. That whole paragraph made no sense to me.

[BretMan]

Runner came off second base in the direction of first base, thus reinstating the force out?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Runner came off second base in the direction of first base, thus reinstating the force out?

You are correct, sir.

No ejections. I think the runner from first had an idea he was out. Perhaps he didn't hear the safe call and started toward the dugout. The whole matter was handled without a lot of yelling or high emotions. It was the player/coach who was the runner on first, so he had the best view of anyone.