Moving the bat

[RKBUmp]

Now what about the catchers helmet which is generally laying somewhere in the general vacinity also? You going to move it too?

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Now what about the catchers helmet which is generally laying somewhere in the general vacinity also? You going to move it too?

yes

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

yes

Break my catcher's mask and you can pay for it, sir.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Break my catcher's mask and you can pay for it, sir.

It broke when you dropped it, not when I moved it.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Break my catcher's mask and you can pay for it, sir.

Give me a break. I really hope you're joking. PS: Tell your catcher she can't drop her equipment and obstruct the runner.

[EsqUmp]

Gotta love it:

For the most part, people are advocating leaving the bat alone, saying they have never had a problem. I'm not sure how they are defining "problem" but I'll take their word for it.

What I'm saying is that I know thousands of umpires who move the bat and none of us have had a "problem." Unless you consider someone saying, "thanks for getting the bat out of the way" a problem.

So why are those who don't move the bat so adamant that those who do move it are wrong? Is it a "that's baseball" argument? I love that one.

Why don't you all ask your associations to put it in writing NOT to move the bat? I can't wait for someone to say that not everything has to be put in a rule book or a manual. After all, it's not like ASA kills trees telling us to make sure we keep a stand-by plumber and electrician

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

So why are those who don't move the bat so adamant that those who do move it are wrong?

Besides the other common sense issues, simply because is it not why the umpire is there. No matter how you want to pose it, if the umpire needs to do anything which draws their attention away from the game they are umpiring, it is something the umpire shouldn't be doing.

The players are there to play their game on their field with their equipment, let them play the game on their field with their equipment.

Then there is always the question of why is the PU hanging around the plate while there is an on-going play.

[3afan]

I had a catcher recently where on every batted ball she tossed her mask into the left side batter's box right where I was going. I finally explained to her that the ump will always go that way on a batted ball so would she please stop tossing her mask in my path. She said she didnt know and she stopped.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Gotta love it:

For the most part, people are advocating leaving the bat alone, saying they have never had a problem. I'm not sure how they are defining "problem" but I'll take their word for it.

Fair question.

I've never seen (while umpiring or observing umpires):
A) A thrown ball hit a discarded bat.
B) A runner or fielder trip over a discarded bat.
C) A play affected in any way, positive or negative, by a discarded bat (other than, of course, the batted ball hitting a bat or a discarded bat hitting a batted ball ... which is surely outside the scope of what we're talking about here)

I do want to ask ... which of these problems have you seen happen that you and your association is trying to avoid by moving the bat?

What I'm saying is that I know thousands of umpires who move the bat and none of us have had a "problem." Unless you consider someone saying, "thanks for getting the bat out of the way" a problem.

So why are those who don't move the bat so adamant that those who do move it are wrong? Is it a "that's baseball" argument? I love that one.

Another fair question. I have witnessed all of the following (all as observer / UIC, never as umpire):

A) Umpire missed SOMETHING while either moving to the bat or reaching for the bat (and yes, this can be fixed with increased training) - "something" includes more than one obstruction, one obviously missed base that I and everyone but him saw - that one resulted in an ejection eventually, one ball that was thrown out of play and the umpire incorrectly ruled where the runners were when the ball was thrown. Probably others in this category that I don't definitively recall right now.
B) One threatened lawsuit that was settled. Bat was expensive. Player's father claimed bat was broken when the umpire tossed it aside into the pole of the fence. He didn't throw it hard - but it was enough to give at least a shred of validity to the possibility that the player's father was right. The league paid for the bat.
C) One innocuous discarded bat was picked up and thrown aside, hitting an on deck batter who was behind the umpire watching the play. (Worse on this one, there was never any potential play at the plate - no runners on, typical single to right - no need at ALL for the umpire to even think about the bat ... but he did.)
D) One discarded bat was picked up and tossed, landing on and breaking the snap on a discarded catcher's mask.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Fair question.

I've never seen (while umpiring or observing umpires):
A) A thrown ball hit a discarded bat.
B) A runner or fielder trip over a discarded bat.
C) A play affected in any way, positive or negative, by a discarded bat (other than, of course, the batted ball hitting a bat or a discarded bat hitting a batted ball ... which is surely outside the scope of what we're talking about here)

I do want to ask ... which of these problems have you seen happen that you and your association is trying to avoid by moving the bat?
I have seen runners move around the bat or come up lame because of the bat's location with respect to the plate. In those cases, the catcher did not move it since she probably felt it was beneficial for her not to. I've seen a runner slide into a bat and because of the way it was positioned and the batter's boxes being dug out a bit, it went flying up and hit the catcher in the face.

Another fair question. I have witnessed all of the following (all as observer / UIC, never as umpire):

A) Umpire missed SOMETHING while either moving to the bat or reaching for the bat (and yes, this can be fixed with increased training) - "something" includes more than one obstruction, one obviously missed base that I and everyone but him saw - that one resulted in an ejection eventually, one ball that was thrown out of play and the umpire incorrectly ruled where the runners were when the ball was thrown. Probably others in this category that I don't definitively recall right now. It's unfortunate that the umpire is unable to move a bat and look ahead at the same time. If he can't do that, I suspect that there is plenty more that he can't do. Can't someone tie their shoes without staring at the laces?
B) One threatened lawsuit that was settled. Bat was expensive. Player's father claimed bat was broken when the umpire tossed it aside into the pole of the fence. He didn't throw it hard - but it was enough to give at least a shred of validity to the possibility that the player's father was right. The league paid for the bat. This umpire certainly didn't follow the protocol that I have established
C) One innocuous discarded bat was picked up and thrown aside, hitting an on deck batter who was behind the umpire watching the play. (Worse on this one, there was never any potential play at the plate - no runners on, typical single to right - no need at ALL for the umpire to even think about the bat ... but he did.) This umpire certainly didn't follow the protocol that I have established.
D) One discarded bat was picked up and tossed, landing on and breaking the snap on a discarded catcher's mask.This umpire certainly didn't follow the protocol that I have established.

I don't buy the "broken equipment" argument. A player can take 500 hits at batting practice and drop/toss the bat every time they get a hit in a game and they want to blame the umpire for the broken bat? These are the same cheats and liars who want their entire 2002 Honda Accord painted when they get into a fender-bender.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Fair question.

I've never seen (while umpiring or observing umpires):
A) A thrown ball hit a discarded bat.
B) A runner or fielder trip over a discarded bat.
C) A play affected in any way, positive or negative, by a discarded bat

I do want to ask ... which of these problems have you seen happen that you and your association is trying to avoid by moving the bat?

Not in softball but in baseball I have seen:

A thrown ball hit a discarded bat a couple of times.
A fielder (catcher) trip over a discarded bat.
Runners trying to avoid a discarded bat several times.
So therefore "C)" is true.

If they have time I quite often see either catchers move a bat or a scoring runner grab the bat.

I have also seen professional umpires move or even pick up a bat. Because they have 3-4 umpires on the field they sometimes have more time to do this than a PU in a one-man or two-man game so it may or may not be practical for a smaller crew to do so.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Fair question.

I've never seen (while umpiring or observing umpires):
A) A thrown ball hit a discarded bat.
B) A runner or fielder trip over a discarded bat.
C) A play affected in any way, positive or negative, by a discarded bat (other than, of course, the batted ball hitting a bat or a discarded bat hitting a batted ball ... which is surely outside the scope of what we're talking about here)

I've seen all of these. They were all rather interesting plays. I still don't move the bat in any leagues remotely approaching competitive play.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Fair question.

I've never seen (while umpiring or observing umpires):
A) A thrown ball hit a discarded bat.
B) A runner or fielder trip over a discarded bat.
C) A play affected in any way, positive or negative, by a discarded bat (other than, of course, the batted ball hitting a bat or a discarded bat hitting a batted ball ... which is surely outside the scope of what we're talking about here)

a) I have never seen a thrown ball hit a discarded bat.
b) I have not seen a player trip over a discarded bat, HOWEVER, twice this season (in 2 games behind the plate) I have seen a runner slide over the top of a bat which was discarded on the baseline just outside the batters box.
c) I have seen discarded bats that have been tossed back and hit the catcher or umpire, but to my knowledge they have not actually impact the play.

[charliej47]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Now what about the catchers helmet which is generally laying somewhere in the general vacinity also? You going to move it too?

There have been times when I have kicked the helmet out of the way.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by charliej47

There have been times when I have kicked the helmet out of the way.

I have to, but not on purpose. Was watching a play and didn't see the helmet and kicked it.

I did not hear the story directly from the umpire it happened to so cannot verify its truth, but I was told we did have parents locally that filed a claim against an umpire for a damaged bat. The umpire tossed the bat out of the way and it hit the chain link fence. Parents said it had broken the bat and filed a claim for damages.