Moving the bat

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by irishmafia

no, for multiple reasons.

To start, it isn't my bat. though true, NOT RELEVANT.
second, a discarded bat becomes part of the field. though true, still NOT RELEVANT.
third, your attention should be on the ball, runners & defenders, not on the bat. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Can't you?
Fourth, as noted, if you do it for one, but better do it for both, every time. COMPLETE BS. Do it whenever possible. That is what a reasonably prudent person would do.
fifth, is you move it, just where are you going to move it to with assurance it will not become part of the play? Can you imagine the crap you will here (and test of your insurance) if you move a bat to an area which the play goes and a player trips over a bat you placed there? What i can assure you is that it will be part of the play IF YOU DON'T MOVE IT. So by that logic, you ought to do what you can to limit it. If the ball hits it after you moved it, who gives a $h!t? "Coach, i moved the bat because it was hazardous." PERIOD.
sixth, and most important, it still isn't my bat. Though still true, STILL NOT RELEVANT.

let's wake up people.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Safely, carefully and cautiously remove the bat.

It is more reasonable and prudent for a trained adult to do this than an amateur athlete.

Forget the 5 lines of BS that the old guard tells you. They lack common sense, legal intelligence and normal standards of care. The arguments they put forth are nonsense that has been passed down to them over the years and they have done a disservice to all by perpetuating such illogical and unreasonable thinking.

EsqUmp:

As a structural engineer I would normally agree with you counselor but this is case if you are damned if you do and damned if you do not.

If one leaves a bat near HP and a player falls over it, or one "[s]afely, carefully and cautiously remove the bat." and a player falls over it. Either case, if a player gets hurt, the "remover" of the bat will be the on considered civilly liable, and if you are even have the lawyer I think you are, you will be the one that sues the umpire and I do not mean that in a derogatory way.

MTD, Sr.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

EsqUmp:

As a structural engineer I would normally agree with you counselor but this is case if you are damned if you do and damned if you do not.

If one leaves a bat near HP and a player falls over it, or one "[s]afely, carefully and cautiously remove the bat." and a player falls over it. Either case, if a player gets hurt, the "remover" of the bat will be the on considered civilly liable, and if you are even have the lawyer I think you are, you will be the one that sues the umpire and I do not mean that in a derogatory way.

MTD, Sr.

What is interesting is the number of people who comment when they have never moved the bat. They do not speak from experience because they have never done it. I have removed hundreds of bats safely, carefully and cautiously. I have never had a problem doing it. No ball has ever hit a moved bat. No player has ever tripped over a moved bat. I have never hit anyone with a moved bat.

Keeping in mind that ASA refuses to put in print that umpires are not to remove the bat, what seems to be a greater chance for liability: 1) Sliding a bat away from the plate where a runner is barreling in and can either be hurt by the bat or turn the bat into a flying projectile or 2) sliding a bat away 5 or 10 feet where no body is or where an on-deck batter or retired runner can grab it?

Not once have I ever had a single issue removing the bat. So why not remove it?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

What is interesting is the number of people who comment when they have never moved the bat. They do not speak from experience because they have never done it. I have removed hundreds of bats safely, carefully and cautiously. I have never had a problem doing it. No ball has ever hit a moved bat. No player has ever tripped over a moved bat. I have never hit anyone with a moved bat.

Keeping in mind that ASA refuses to put in print that umpires are not to remove the bat, what seems to be a greater chance for liability: 1) Sliding a bat away from the plate where a runner is barreling in and can either be hurt by the bat or turn the bat into a flying projectile or 2) sliding a bat away 5 or 10 feet where no body is or where an on-deck batter or retired runner can grab it?

Not once have I ever had a single issue removing the bat. So why not remove it?

Your statement in bold red is not different than the statements from officials and umpires who refuse to enforce jewelry rules.

MTD, Sr.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Your statement in bold red is not different than the statements from officials and umpires who refuse to enforce jewelry rules.

MTD, Sr.

That's an actual rule though.

And I do agree that most jewelry rules are absurdly too restrictive and unnecessary. I've never encountered an issue with NCAA players wearing jewelry. I've never had an issue at PONY Nationals where we don't operate as jewelry police either.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

That's an actual rule though.

And I do agree that most jewelry rules are absurdly too restrictive and unnecessary. I've never encountered an issue with NCAA players wearing jewelry. I've never had an issue at PONY Nationals where we don't operate as jewelry police either.

NCAA players are adults and responsible for their own actions. To the best of my knowledge, only NFHS has jewelry-police rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Not once have I ever had a single issue removing the bat. So why not remove it?

I have never needed to use my liability insurance, so should I just drop it?

I've never once been hit in the groin with a ball, so should I not wear a cup?

I have never been hit in the head with a discarded bat, so should I not worry about where the AA slings the bat.

It only takes one time and there were no invalid points of those I made and you know it. And they certainly aren't "old guard" since the "old guard" would move the bat.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

What is interesting is the number of people who comment when they have never moved the bat. They do not speak from experience because they have never done it. I have removed hundreds of bats safely, carefully and cautiously. I have never had a problem doing it. No ball has ever hit a moved bat. No player has ever tripped over a moved bat. I have never hit anyone with a moved bat.

Keeping in mind that ASA refuses to put in print that umpires are not to remove the bat, what seems to be a greater chance for liability: 1) Sliding a bat away from the plate where a runner is barreling in and can either be hurt by the bat or turn the bat into a flying projectile or 2) sliding a bat away 5 or 10 feet where no body is or where an on-deck batter or retired runner can grab it?

Not once have I ever had a single issue removing the bat. So why not remove it?

Clearing the bat when necessary, available, and possible has been taught at baseball clinics given by professional umpires. Go to a knee and slide the bat on the ground behind you while keeping your head focused on any responsibilities. It does not have to be done. I don't know about the smaller softball field possibities.

[teebob21]

Interesting set of responses. Good read.

I used to move the bat when possible. I no longer make the attempt.

If I was ever working rec league 8U/10U again, I might move the bat as needed. That said, my daughter has been playing 8U. While they are uniformly horrible, not once has the bat been an issue at that level.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

What is interesting is the number of people who comment when they have never moved the bat. They do not speak from experience because they have never done it. I have removed hundreds of bats safely, carefully and cautiously. I have never had a problem doing it. No ball has ever hit a moved bat. No player has ever tripped over a moved bat. I have never hit anyone with a moved bat.

I have never removed a bat and never had a problem by not doing it. I have never hit anyone by not moving it, either. I have also never seen it be a problem on any play where I didn't move it, usually because a catcher or an ondeck batter or a preceding runner has taken care of it.

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Not once have I ever had a single issue removing the bat. So why not remove it?

Not once have I ever had a single issue by leaving the bat where it is. So why remove it?

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I've never once been hit in the groin with a ball, so should I not wear a cup?

Oh man, you don't know what you're missing.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I have never removed a bat and never had a problem by not doing it. I have never hit anyone by not moving it, either. I have also never seen it be a problem on any play where I didn't move it, usually because a catcher or an ondeck batter or a preceding runner has taken care of it.



Not once have I ever had a single issue by leaving the bat where it is. So why remove it?

The professional baseball rational is that it is a professional courtesy. No one would question if you did not remove it. MLB umpires have picked up the bat and held it while ruling on the safe or out at HP.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I have never removed a bat and never had a problem by not doing it. I have never hit anyone by not moving it, either. I have also never seen it be a problem on any play where I didn't move it, usually because a catcher or an ondeck batter or a preceding runner has taken care of it.



Not once have I ever had a single issue by leaving the bat where it is. So why remove it?

I prefer not to have an on-deck batter run into an area that may soon become the site of a play. I can get there quicker and get rid of the bat. I prefer that trained adults take care of this rather than waiting for a 12 year old girl to do it.

Just because you have not had an issue with it doesn't mean that others haven't. This issue doesn't just fall out of the clear blue sky. It arises because situations arise.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

(snip)

Just because you have not had an issue with it doesn't mean that others haven't. This issue doesn't just fall out of the clear blue sky. It arises because situations arise.

I think that is the point...

I think earlier, someone, referring to his preference for removing the bat stated:

Not once have I ever had a single issue removing the bat. So why not remove it?

[EsqUmp]

Here is what we say about bat removal. I apologize ahead of time if this level of common sense offends anyone's sensibilities.

BAT REMOVAL
• After hitting a ball, a batter may drop her bat into a position near home plate that might subsequently interfere with a play at the plate. When possible, umpires may safely, carefully and cautiously remove a bat without interfering with play.
• Three criteria should be used in deciding whether to clear the bat:
• Is it necessary? If there is a possibility of a play at the plate, you must
determine....
• Is the bat available? If the bat is close enough and you can get it, you must
then determine...
• Is it possible? Is it possible to get the bat, move it and get back into proper
position for the ensuing play at the plate?
• If the answer to all three questions is "Yes," then clear the bat.
• The proper technique for clearing the bat will allow you to keep an eye on your responsibilities and move the bat safely away from the immediate area of the plate. When grapping the bat, keep your head up and watch the runner round 3rd base. There is always the possibility of a missed base, obstruction, or a coach's assist.
• Grab the bat firmly with your hand, point the handle or barrel toward foul territory and slide the bat along the ground. The bat should never leave the ground.
• Slide the bat far enough so that it cannot be in the way, including if players adjust. Sliding the bat rather than picking it up and throwing it also minimizes risk of injury to an on-deck hitter who may be coaching the approaching runner.