Fan distracting players

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by topper

I work some HS in your state. Would that be TASO or UIL that is saying this? Please cite where fans are considered coaches.

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

It's come up at more than one TASO meeting - not really calling fans coaches per se, but more along the lines of not allowing coaching to occur from directly behind the catcher, and keeping that area (where possible) as a kind of "neutral zone" if you will.

I think one example given was a Yates - Stafford game - visiting JV coach camped right behind the catcher dressed out of uniform and was coaching the kids on where the catcher set up. Home fans then decided they would do the same, and it came to pushing and shoving.

You have to admit that the ability to give players instruction from right there behind the plate is an advantage - I completely understand the desire to prevent that.

[topper]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

We were a UIL Chapter the last couple of years. While we were thankfully spared the monumental waste of time that is a TASO clinic, the softball board did communicate with us from time to time. I wasn't sure where the "no giving instructions from behind the backstop" came from.

As for the OP, where would you draw the line on what can be said from the stands? Would you consider "Watch out for the change-up", "Keep your head in there", etc. something to be stopped?

I'm not sure the rules prohibit a coach on the field from telling a batter where the catcher is set up, much less someone in the stands. If pushing and shoving happens in the stands, it is a site administrator issue, not an umpire issue.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by topper

As for the OP, where would you draw the line on what can be said from the stands? Would you consider "Watch out for the change-up", "Keep your head in there", etc. something to be stopped?

No, not at all.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's come up at more than one TASO meeting - not really calling fans coaches per se, but more along the lines of not allowing coaching to occur from directly behind the catcher, and keeping that area (where possible) as a kind of "neutral zone" if you will.

I think one example given was a Yates - Stafford game - visiting JV coach camped right behind the catcher dressed out of uniform and was coaching the kids on where the catcher set up. Home fans then decided they would do the same, and it came to pushing and shoving.

That's a different situation than the OP. If it can be proven that a "real" coach is behind the backstop, that is certainly an issue to be dealt with using the rule book.

But if it's just a fan, I agree that the best way to deal with it is to get the school's athletic director or other rep to handle it. I think it's inappropriate to consider it "coaching" and try to deal with it that way.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Manny A

But if it's just a fan, I agree that the best way to deal with it is to get the school's athletic director or other rep to handle it. I think it's inappropriate to consider it "coaching" and try to deal with it that way.

Manny:

If you already know that it is just a fan doing the shouting, why are you even bothering to get game management involved. It is a fan, let them shout all they want. There is no rule justification for you or game management to get involved.

MTD, Sr.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Manny:

If you already know that it is just a fan doing the shouting, why are you even bothering to get game management involved. It is a fan, let them shout all they want. There is no rule justification for you or game management to get involved.

MTD, Sr.

While there may be no specific rule in our book(s), we've been given the following mandate from the New Hampshire Interscholastic A.A.

"The National High School Federation and your state association require officials to enforce sportsmanship rules. High school athletics emphasize positive values. All of us have worked hard to create a sense of teamwork, respect, responsibility and perspective. We remind you that we expect good behavior and will quickly penalize misconduct. We encourage and appreciate your help. Let this competition reflect mutual respect among all participants and officials. Coaches please certify that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules."

While the above gives officials no specific responsibilities as to what goes on outside the confines of the field, sportsmanship relating to the game can be addressed by either the coach(es) and/or game managers.

I believe in most cases, simply asking an offending party to cease doing what he/she is doing will suffice. Certainly, the rare exception will occur but in 5 years that I've been working HS ball, I haven't seen it. Hope it stays that way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I couldn't care less what goes on outside the fence unless it involves team personnel.

In a situation where the sanctioning authority has someone in place, they may handle it.

If not, including ASA, I'm going on with the game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I couldn't care less what goes on outside the fence unless it involves team personnel.

In a situation where the sanctioning authority has someone in place, they may handle it.

If not, including ASA, I'm going on with the game.

Well said.

MTD, Sr.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Manny:

If you already know that it is just a fan doing the shouting, why are you even bothering to get game management involved. It is a fan, let them shout all they want. There is no rule justification for you or game management to get involved.

MTD, Sr.

I would get them involved if what's happening outside the fence affects what's happening inside. Why ignore it and let it potentially cause problems involving the coaches and players?

99% of the stuff I hear from the bleachers, I ignore completely. It's that 1% that I feel is going to escalate where I ask the person responsible for keeping fans in check to take care of it if he/she hasn't already gotten involved.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I couldn't care less what goes on outside the fence unless it involves team personnel.

In a situation where the sanctioning authority has someone in place, they may handle it.

If not, including ASA, I'm going on with the game.

Originally Posted by Manny A

I would get them involved if what's happening outside the fence affects what's happening inside. Why ignore it and let it potentially cause problems involving the coaches and players?

99% of the stuff I hear from the bleachers, I ignore completely. It's that 1% that I feel is going to escalate where I ask the person responsible for keeping fans in check to take care of it if he/she hasn't already gotten involved.

Both well said, different parts of the same considerations.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I would get them involved if what's happening outside the fence affects what's happening inside. Why ignore it and let it potentially cause problems involving the coaches and players?

99% of the stuff I hear from the bleachers, I ignore completely. It's that 1% that I feel is going to escalate where I ask the person responsible for keeping fans in check to take care of it if he/she hasn't already gotten involved.

Manny:

If you are worried about the 1% (fan/parent) shouting instructions to his child/player affecting what the catcher is doing then two things are happening: (1) You are listening to stuff that does not concern you or the players. And (2) if what the fan/parent of her opponent is doing is distracting her from doing her job then she does not have her head in the game and her coach needs to either tell her to get her head into the game or replace her.

MTD, Sr.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Manny:

If you are worried about the 1% (fan/parent) shouting instructions to his child/player affecting what the catcher is doing then two things are happening: (1) You are listening to stuff that does not concern you or the players. And (2) if what the fan/parent of her opponent is doing is distracting her from doing her job then she does not have her head in the game and her coach needs to either tell her to get her head into the game or replace her.

MTD, Sr.

Perhaps I wasn't clear, Mark. I'm not talking about the situation in the OP. I'm talking about situations where I judge they will escalate.

But let's take the OP. If a parent is instructing batters where the catcher is setting up, that's not something I will be concerned about. But as things start getting hairier because opposing parents are shouting at him/her and, in turn, I see the players and coaches getting upset, are you really suggesting I should still do nothing about it?

Sorry, I'm not going to allow things on the field to deteriorate because some pinhead in the stands can't behave. I would hope that somebody responsible for taking care of the problem would nip things in the bud right away. But I've seen those "responsible" people sit by and do nothing because they are oblivious to the problem, or they are too timid to take action. I'll get his/her attention and tell him/her, "Hey, you need to do the right thing here before the game goes to hell."

That's only happened to me a couple of times. In one case, there was a collision at home that I felt was not malicious, so I ruled the runner out but did not eject. A parent (I assume the catcher's dad) went nuts. He was adamant that the runner should have been tossed, and berated her, her coaches, and me. Initially I ignored his dumb @$$, but then one of the coaches from the runner's team started yelling back at him to shut up. The AD at the game was sitting in his golf cart next to the concession stand, totally ignoring the situation. I got his attention quick and asked him to take care of things quick.

That's the 1% I'm talking about.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Perhaps I wasn't clear, Mark. I'm not talking about the situation in the OP. I'm talking about situations where I judge they will escalate.

But let's take the OP. If a parent is instructing batters where the catcher is setting up, that's not something I will be concerned about. But as things start getting hairier because opposing parents are shouting at him/her and, in turn, I see the players and coaches getting upset, are you really suggesting I should still do nothing about it?

Sorry, I'm not going to allow things on the field to deteriorate because some pinhead in the stands can't behave. I would hope that somebody responsible for taking care of the problem would nip things in the bud right away. But I've seen those "responsible" people sit by and do nothing because they are oblivious to the problem, or they are too timid to take action. I'll get his/her attention and tell him/her, "Hey, you need to do the right thing here before the game goes to hell."

That's only happened to me a couple of times. In one case, there was a collision at home that I felt was not malicious, so I ruled the runner out but did not eject. A parent (I assume the catcher's dad) went nuts. He was adamant that the runner should have been tossed, and berated her, her coaches, and me. Initially I ignored his dumb @$$, but then one of the coaches from the runner's team started yelling back at him to shut up. The AD at the game was sitting in his golf cart next to the concession stand, totally ignoring the situation. I got his attention quick and asked him to take care of things quick.

That's the 1% I'm talking about.

If people shouting in the stands is affecting what is happening on the field, maybe those affected shouldn't be on the field to start as they are the ones choosing to be affected.

And for all you folks who want to talk about Lil' Susie getting upset and crying or whatever other psuedocatastrophic events which may be taking place, this is where a coach and parent need to be coaches and parents and use the situation as a teaching moment.

What a minute, what the **** is wrong with me? Expecting adults to act like adults and parents acting as responsible parents, I must be out of my mind to think something like that could occur at a ballpark or anywhere, for that matter.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

No. You won't. However, it is the UIL, and not TASO or LHSSOA who decide how rules are to be applied in this state. The official's organizations are merely the mouthpieces.

[Skahtboi]

In the OP, this would strictly be a game administrator's issue, IMO. That is why, at least in this state, they are required to be present for every varsity match and recommended for all sub-varsity games.