Fan distracting players

[Moosie74]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Since when is a fan (in this case a parent) a coach. Do not go looking for problems that do not exist.

MTD, Sr.

Restrict them to the top row of the bleachers behind the crying child, this is the best penalty!

To the original poster though, quietly say to him, sir, I need you to return to your bench Oh sorry, I'm not a coach. Ok, well, then do me a favor just enjoy the game and let the coaches coach.

Quick, easy and no one is heated up

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Ladies and gentlemen! Why do so many of you want to go picking boogers and looking for problems where non exist.

I have officiated H.S. and college basketball for 44 years and H.S. soccer for 13 years, and umpired H.S. baseball and fast pitch softball umpire for 22 years.

I have been a basketball interpreter and instruction chairman and I have always taught new officials that are to ignore fans 99.999,999% of the time. The only time officials need to concern themselves with a fan's conduct is when a fan comes out onto the court or playing field, the fan physically attacks a participant, coach, or game official, or the fan threatens a participant, coach, or game official with physical violence.

I do not care that the parent (who is only a fan) is telling his child (or his child's teammates) what the catcher is doing. It is not the official's concern. That parent/fan paid his money and if he wants to shout instructions to his child or his child's teammates, that is his right.

An official who attempts to quiet a parent/fan will find no rules support. Game officials have more important things to concern himself with that parents/fans that are yelling instructions to their children.

With apologies to Nike: JUST DON'T DO IT!!

MTD, Sr.

[EsqUmp]

• Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach or team member or associate to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of the rules and enforcing the prescribed penalties.
• Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in the rules. Each umpire will use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning based on the spirit of fair play when making rulings.


The short answer is this: Do what you think is right for the particular situation. There are a million scenarios and thousands of umpires. Don't let things escalate, but don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong either.

"Never" and "Always" umpires are afraid to use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning; so, they either always do something or never do something. Evaluate the situation and address is in a manner you find appropriate for your particular case.

[topper]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

And in mine they don't want any coaching going on from behind the catcher - from either team.

I work some HS in your state. Would that be TASO or UIL that is saying this? Please cite where fans are considered coaches.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by topper

I work some HS in your state. Would that be TASO or UIL that is saying this? Please cite where fans are considered coaches.

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

It's come up at more than one TASO meeting - not really calling fans coaches per se, but more along the lines of not allowing coaching to occur from directly behind the catcher, and keeping that area (where possible) as a kind of "neutral zone" if you will.

I think one example given was a Yates - Stafford game - visiting JV coach camped right behind the catcher dressed out of uniform and was coaching the kids on where the catcher set up. Home fans then decided they would do the same, and it came to pushing and shoving.

You have to admit that the ability to give players instruction from right there behind the plate is an advantage - I completely understand the desire to prevent that.

[topper]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

We were a UIL Chapter the last couple of years. While we were thankfully spared the monumental waste of time that is a TASO clinic, the softball board did communicate with us from time to time. I wasn't sure where the "no giving instructions from behind the backstop" came from.

As for the OP, where would you draw the line on what can be said from the stands? Would you consider "Watch out for the change-up", "Keep your head in there", etc. something to be stopped?

I'm not sure the rules prohibit a coach on the field from telling a batter where the catcher is set up, much less someone in the stands. If pushing and shoving happens in the stands, it is a site administrator issue, not an umpire issue.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by topper

As for the OP, where would you draw the line on what can be said from the stands? Would you consider "Watch out for the change-up", "Keep your head in there", etc. something to be stopped?

No, not at all.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's come up at more than one TASO meeting - not really calling fans coaches per se, but more along the lines of not allowing coaching to occur from directly behind the catcher, and keeping that area (where possible) as a kind of "neutral zone" if you will.

I think one example given was a Yates - Stafford game - visiting JV coach camped right behind the catcher dressed out of uniform and was coaching the kids on where the catcher set up. Home fans then decided they would do the same, and it came to pushing and shoving.

That's a different situation than the OP. If it can be proven that a "real" coach is behind the backstop, that is certainly an issue to be dealt with using the rule book.

But if it's just a fan, I agree that the best way to deal with it is to get the school's athletic director or other rep to handle it. I think it's inappropriate to consider it "coaching" and try to deal with it that way.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Manny A

But if it's just a fan, I agree that the best way to deal with it is to get the school's athletic director or other rep to handle it. I think it's inappropriate to consider it "coaching" and try to deal with it that way.

Manny:

If you already know that it is just a fan doing the shouting, why are you even bothering to get game management involved. It is a fan, let them shout all they want. There is no rule justification for you or game management to get involved.

MTD, Sr.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Manny:

If you already know that it is just a fan doing the shouting, why are you even bothering to get game management involved. It is a fan, let them shout all they want. There is no rule justification for you or game management to get involved.

MTD, Sr.

While there may be no specific rule in our book(s), we've been given the following mandate from the New Hampshire Interscholastic A.A.

"The National High School Federation and your state association require officials to enforce sportsmanship rules. High school athletics emphasize positive values. All of us have worked hard to create a sense of teamwork, respect, responsibility and perspective. We remind you that we expect good behavior and will quickly penalize misconduct. We encourage and appreciate your help. Let this competition reflect mutual respect among all participants and officials. Coaches please certify that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules."

While the above gives officials no specific responsibilities as to what goes on outside the confines of the field, sportsmanship relating to the game can be addressed by either the coach(es) and/or game managers.

I believe in most cases, simply asking an offending party to cease doing what he/she is doing will suffice. Certainly, the rare exception will occur but in 5 years that I've been working HS ball, I haven't seen it. Hope it stays that way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I couldn't care less what goes on outside the fence unless it involves team personnel.

In a situation where the sanctioning authority has someone in place, they may handle it.

If not, including ASA, I'm going on with the game.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I couldn't care less what goes on outside the fence unless it involves team personnel.

In a situation where the sanctioning authority has someone in place, they may handle it.

If not, including ASA, I'm going on with the game.

Well said.

MTD, Sr.

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by jodibuck

In a high school game, a parent sitting behind the backstop is calling out to each batter where the catcher is setting up for each pitch. Fans from the opposing team start yelling at this person to stop. Should the umpire stop the game and address this situation?

IMHO, the fans from the other team are the ones creating the problem.

But as was said, it's not my problem.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Manny:

If you already know that it is just a fan doing the shouting, why are you even bothering to get game management involved. It is a fan, let them shout all they want. There is no rule justification for you or game management to get involved.

MTD, Sr.

I would get them involved if what's happening outside the fence affects what's happening inside. Why ignore it and let it potentially cause problems involving the coaches and players?

99% of the stuff I hear from the bleachers, I ignore completely. It's that 1% that I feel is going to escalate where I ask the person responsible for keeping fans in check to take care of it if he/she hasn't already gotten involved.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I couldn't care less what goes on outside the fence unless it involves team personnel.

In a situation where the sanctioning authority has someone in place, they may handle it.

If not, including ASA, I'm going on with the game.

Originally Posted by Manny A

I would get them involved if what's happening outside the fence affects what's happening inside. Why ignore it and let it potentially cause problems involving the coaches and players?

99% of the stuff I hear from the bleachers, I ignore completely. It's that 1% that I feel is going to escalate where I ask the person responsible for keeping fans in check to take care of it if he/she hasn't already gotten involved.

Both well said, different parts of the same considerations.