Fan distracting players

[youngump]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If you consider it coaching from out of dugout, yes.

What rule do you use to support this? They aren't team personnel. Only team personnel have to stay in the dugout no?

[Tru_in_Blu]

I'll preface my remarks by saying that I do a lot more ASA games than I do NFHS games.

That said, I think it would be easier to address on the HS level because of the game managers that are typically on site. My first conversation would be with the coach of the offending team.

The rules don't allow for players or coaches to be behind the backstop. If a parent/fan is being obnoxious, I'd ask the coach to address the behavior.

I understand that there's likely to be a split of opinion about what umpires should or should not do in these instances.

A well coached team could find ways around this. Of course all of this assumes that a pitcher can actually hit the target that the catcher is calling for. I know you've all done games where the pitcher isn't in the same zip code. In any case, a few faux outside targets that result in a bit of chin music will quickly put the parent's calls of pitch location in question. Again, assuming the pitcher actually has that kind of control.

I'll say I've had more issues w/ ASA games than HS games. I've only tried addressing issues on the other side of the fence a few times. One time my partner and I were discussing potential strategies between innings. The catcher must have overheard part of the conversation because on the next close pitch, our heckler started in again only to have the catcher turn toward the fence and yell out "Dad! Shut UP!" Now there's a catcher that knows how to call a game!

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by youngump

What rule do you use to support this? They aren't team personnel. Only team personnel have to stay in the dugout no?

If you consider it coaching

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If you consider it coaching

If your State Association does not recognize that person as a coach, you don't have the authority to make their comments "coaching".

In my state, that person is not allowed in the team area, nor on the field. That makes him a fan, not a coach, and not subject to coaching restrictions.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If your State Association does not recognize that person as a coach, you don't have the authority to make their comments "coaching".

In my state, that person is not allowed in the team area, nor on the field. That makes him a fan, not a coach, and not subject to coaching restrictions.

Gotcha.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

If your State Association does not recognize that person as a coach, you don't have the authority to make their comments "coaching".

In my state, that person is not allowed in the team area, nor on the field. That makes him a fan, not a coach, and not subject to coaching restrictions.

And in mine they don't want any coaching going on from behind the catcher - from either team.

[EsqUmp]

• Each umpire has authority to order a player, coach or team member or associate to do or refrain from doing anything that affects the administering of the rules and enforcing the prescribed penalties.
• Each umpire has authority to rule on any point not specifically covered in the rules. Each umpire will use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning based on the spirit of fair play when making rulings.


The short answer is this: Do what you think is right for the particular situation. There are a million scenarios and thousands of umpires. Don't let things escalate, but don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong either.

"Never" and "Always" umpires are afraid to use common sense, good judgment and thoughtful reasoning; so, they either always do something or never do something. Evaluate the situation and address is in a manner you find appropriate for your particular case.

[topper]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

And in mine they don't want any coaching going on from behind the catcher - from either team.

I work some HS in your state. Would that be TASO or UIL that is saying this? Please cite where fans are considered coaches.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by topper

I work some HS in your state. Would that be TASO or UIL that is saying this? Please cite where fans are considered coaches.

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

It's come up at more than one TASO meeting - not really calling fans coaches per se, but more along the lines of not allowing coaching to occur from directly behind the catcher, and keeping that area (where possible) as a kind of "neutral zone" if you will.

I think one example given was a Yates - Stafford game - visiting JV coach camped right behind the catcher dressed out of uniform and was coaching the kids on where the catcher set up. Home fans then decided they would do the same, and it came to pushing and shoving.

You have to admit that the ability to give players instruction from right there behind the plate is an advantage - I completely understand the desire to prevent that.

[topper]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

We were a UIL Chapter the last couple of years. While we were thankfully spared the monumental waste of time that is a TASO clinic, the softball board did communicate with us from time to time. I wasn't sure where the "no giving instructions from behind the backstop" came from.

As for the OP, where would you draw the line on what can be said from the stands? Would you consider "Watch out for the change-up", "Keep your head in there", etc. something to be stopped?

I'm not sure the rules prohibit a coach on the field from telling a batter where the catcher is set up, much less someone in the stands. If pushing and shoving happens in the stands, it is a site administrator issue, not an umpire issue.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's come up at more than one TASO meeting - not really calling fans coaches per se, but more along the lines of not allowing coaching to occur from directly behind the catcher, and keeping that area (where possible) as a kind of "neutral zone" if you will.

I think one example given was a Yates - Stafford game - visiting JV coach camped right behind the catcher dressed out of uniform and was coaching the kids on where the catcher set up. Home fans then decided they would do the same, and it came to pushing and shoving.

That's a different situation than the OP. If it can be proven that a "real" coach is behind the backstop, that is certainly an issue to be dealt with using the rule book.

But if it's just a fan, I agree that the best way to deal with it is to get the school's athletic director or other rep to handle it. I think it's inappropriate to consider it "coaching" and try to deal with it that way.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't know that I've ever attended (or even heard of) a UIL clinic...

No. You won't. However, it is the UIL, and not TASO or LHSSOA who decide how rules are to be applied in this state. The official's organizations are merely the mouthpieces.

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

Does your area have any kind of 'game management' present? Around here, schools are supposed to have some kind of personnel present to help out in situations like this. Here, I would go to the coach and them to get that person(s), and have them that those people need to follow the NYS Sportsmanship Rule - which includes spectators as well as players and coaches. If they persist, we then can have the game management to remove those people.

I actually had something like that twice this last volleyball season. Was working junior high level ball, when the visiting coaches came to me during the warm ups, and said a group of boys were making remarks to her players. Since we were in warm ups, I went right to the local game management - one an asst. principal, one an AD, and things got settled REAL quick.

The point is that it is not your job to enforce things like that, but the host school. If they do NOT provide that proper and sporting setting, then as an official have the ultimate option of not playing if you think it is not conducive for fair play. But it will never go that far - hopefully, especially not in this game.