Obstruction question

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

In this scenario, R2 was never really affected by the obstruction, so she wouldn't get any base award here. She ran to third as runners are taught when a teammate gets into a rundown between third and home. The fact that R1 made it back to third safely puts R2 at risk, and she's going to be out on the tag unless the umpire judges R1 should be awarded home due to the obstruction.

If you're going to take that line of reasoning, then don't you have to hold it the same way when R1 is going to be awarded home? R2 still wasn't affected by the obstruction. Or are you saying that by not letting R1 get home, R2 was affected? If you're saying that, then why can't R2 be affected simply by the run down being longer. Not saying that's this play necessarily (obviously there's not enough in the question to know), but consider that R1 gets knocked down on the way back to third and would have been tagged there. Since she got knocked down she doesn't make it to the tag and scrambles the other way. The run down now continues and R2 and R1 slide into third. The obstruction definitely affected R2 in this play.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by youngump

If you're going to take that line of reasoning, then don't you have to hold it the same way when R1 is going to be awarded home? R2 still wasn't affected by the obstruction. Or are you saying that by not letting R1 get home, R2 was affected? If you're saying that, then why can't R2 be affected simply by the run down being longer. Not saying that's this play necessarily (obviously there's not enough in the question to know), but consider that R1 gets knocked down on the way back to third and would have been tagged there. Since she got knocked down she doesn't make it to the tag and scrambles the other way. The run down now continues and R2 and R1 slide into third. The obstruction definitely affected R2 in this play.

You have to take each play on its merits.

In this play, R2 was not affected whatsoever. She ran from first all the way to third base, as all runners do when R1 gets into a rundown between third and home. It doesn't matter if R1's obstruction was a slight bump or a complete knockdown to the ground. In fact, if R1 hadn't been obstructed, R2 would have done nothing different. There is nothing here that says the obstruction of R1 caused R2 to do something out of the ordinary.

Now, suppose R2 ran to third base because R1 was running home, R1 gets tripped by F1 as F1 is moving to back up a throw home, R1 gets up and scrambles back to third, and R2 reacts by heading back to second base, and she gets tagged out sliding headfirst into second. In that case, you could rule that R1 would have scored, and R2 would have safely achieve third, and put R2 there. That would be a case where the obstruction of R1 caused R2 to do something she wouldn't have done had there been no obstruction.

[robbie]

I assume this is ASA?
I do not do ASA at all so I guess I'm a bit confused. Why is it not Dead Ball immediately at time of obstruction during the run down?
(It is in NSA)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by robbie

I assume this is ASA?
I do not do ASA at all so I guess I'm a bit confused. Why is it not Dead Ball immediately at time of obstruction during the run down?
(It is in NSA)

Yeah, NSA's rule could actually benefit the offending team. To the best of my knowledge, the only one that does.

Not a smart rule, IMO

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Yeah, NSA's rule could actually benefit the offending team. To the best of my knowledge, the only one that does.

Not a smart rule, IMO

It's the same rule in OBR baseball. Immediate dead ball and runner is sent home.

I like it because it encourages the defense to stay out of the way.

Rita

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rita C

It's the same rule in OBR baseball. Immediate dead ball and runner is sent home.

I like it because it encourages the defense to stay out of the way.

Rita

That isn't what the NSA rule is. NSA is the same as other softball, you place the runner on the base they would have reached had the OBS not occurred. That isn't always the next base.

[robbie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That isn't what the NSA rule is. NSA is the same as other softball, you place the runner on the base they would have reached had the OBS not occurred. That isn't always the next base.

Correct - However, in the case of a rundown - By Rule you DO award next base. And if forces other runners they move up also.

In the OP, For NSA one would have immediate dead ball. Award lead runner home. Trailing runner awarded base they would have obtained absent the obstruction.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That isn't what the NSA rule is. NSA is the same as other softball, you place the runner on the base they would have reached had the OBS not occurred. That isn't always the next base.

The OP doesn't indicate which base the runner was trying to reach when obstructed, just that the runner made it back to 3B safely. The runner may have been trying for home when obstructed and simply turned around. In this case, home would be the proper award to negate the obstruction.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That isn't what the NSA rule is. NSA is the same as other softball, you place the runner on the base they would have reached had the OBS not occurred. That isn't always the next base.

So he was wrong about NSA?

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by Rita C

It's the same rule in OBR baseball. Immediate dead ball and runner is sent home.

I like it because it encourages the defense to stay out of the way.

Rita

[OBR] Only if a play is being made on the runner. (There was in the OP.) This is type A OBS.