Obstruction question

[goodbook]

ASA rules in force.

runner is approaching 3rd on a hit to the outfield. Ball is thrown from CF to 3rd trying to get runner. Throw is on the way and a little off line. 3rd baseman moves to be able to catch the ball and bumps the runner. No play is made and runner is safe at 3rd. Umpire calls obstruction and awards home. First place she wasn't getting home to begin with and secondly I do not believe this is obstruction since fielder is trying to move to receive the throw that is on the way. Please advise.

[Dakota]

F5 did not have possession of the ball, and was not making a play on a batted ball, so, yes, it was obstruction. As far as the base award, that is umpire judgment of what base the runner would have achieved had there been no obstruction. You may disagree with his judgment, but it was his judgment.

[goodbook]

B) Obstruction - "The act of a defensive team member that hinders or impedes a batter's attempt to make contact with a pitched ball or that impedes the progress of a runner or batter-runner who is legally running the bases, unless the fielder is in possession of the ball, is fielding a batted ball or is about to receive a thrown ball. The act may be intentional or unintentional." For clarification purposes, "1. The defensive player must be in the process of catching the ball and not merely positioning, waiting for a throw to arrive. 2. The act may be intentional or unintentional."

"about to receive a thrown ball" this is my problem with the call

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by goodbook

B) Obstruction - "The act of a defensive team member that hinders or impedes a batter's attempt to make contact with a pitched ball or that impedes the progress of a runner or batter-runner who is legally running the bases, unless the fielder is in possession of the ball, is fielding a batted ball or is about to receive a thrown ball. The act may be intentional or unintentional." For clarification purposes, "1. The defensive player must be in the process of catching the ball and not merely positioning, waiting for a throw to arrive. 2. The act may be intentional or unintentional."

"about to receive a thrown ball" this is my problem with the call

Looks like someone is quoting an older/out dated version of ASA rules.

[goodbook]

Really.....please help me out then. I am not a softball guy and that is why I am asking for thoughts. I saw this online, but did not see a date?? If you can post the current reading I would appreciate it. Thanks!

[BretMan]

No, your problem is that you apparently have an ASA rule book that is five or six years out of date!

(Or, possibly, you looking at a rule other than ASA's.)

They removed the phrase "about to receive a thrown ball" several years ago- it no longer applies. A fielder gets no protection from an obstruction call if she is positioned to catch the ball, but impedes the runner BEFORE gaining possession of it.

It's sounds like this was obstruction. The base award...doesn't sound right. A coach could have questioned the umpire about the award. If he said it was "his judgment" that the runner would have reached home, well then, that's his judgment (it might not necessarily be good or sound judgment!) and you're stuck with it. If he told the coach something like "obstruction is an automatic one base award"...then you have a misapplied rule. The next thing out of your mouth should be, "I want to file a protest".

[goodbook]

Gotcha....thanks for that very concise clarification about the rule change. That tells me what I needed to know. When I looked it up online because of my belief it was an incorrect call, that is the first thing I saw. Next, I found this board that appeared to give reasonable replies to rule questions. Looks like I got what I was hoping to find. I appreciate the help!!

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

No, your problem is that you apparently have an ASA rule book that is five or six years out of date!

More! ASA removed that back in 2003 or 2004, IIRC.

But yes, goodbook, it is obstruction in ASA. If the umpire believes that the runner would have gotten a particular base (even home plate) had there been no obstruction, then that is the award.

And glad we could help.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by goodbook

ASA rules in force.

runner is approaching 3rd on a hit to the outfield. Ball is thrown from CF to 3rd trying to get runner. Throw is on the way and a little off line. 3rd baseman moves to be able to catch the ball and bumps the runner. No play is made and runner is safe at 3rd. Umpire calls obstruction and awards home. First place she wasn't getting home to begin with and secondly I do not believe this is obstruction since fielder is trying to move to receive the throw that is on the way. Please advise.

As one of my old bosses used to say......."It it good to be King"......pure umpire judgement..........

HTBT as far as the award.......but I am not going to take away anything from the umpire in question. He/she saw something

Joel

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

More! ASA removed that back in 2003 or 2004, IIRC.

I was thinking 2005 or 2006 off the top of my head...and didn't bother to go digging through my "Rule Book Library".

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I was thinking 2005 or 2006 off the top of my head...and didn't bother to go digging through my "Rule Book Library".

I think someone had asked not too long ago (either here or SBF), and Irish looked it up. Somehow, that stuck out in my mind.

It's weird that these sorts of things will immediately come to mind, but I can't remember what I ate for lunch yesterday. Oh wait... Arby's.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

... but I can't remember what I ate for lunch yesterday. Oh wait... Arby's.

So, you were in a good mood for the rest of the day?

[goodbook]

My real problem is that I have coached travel baseball for the last 9 years and just got thrown into softball coaching against my will.....LOL

In baseball, the fielder has a right to position himself to receive a thrown ball. I have learned to not get too excited with any umpire in softball because these rules are different in a few specific cicumstances for sure.

Thanks again to all for their help educating me!!

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by goodbook

My real problem is that I have coached travel baseball for the last 9 years and just got thrown into softball coaching against my will.....LOL

In baseball, the fielder has a right to position himself to receive a thrown ball. I have learned to not get too excited with any umpire in softball because these rules are different in a few specific cicumstances for sure.

Thanks again to all for their help educating me!!

Here is the dealio. Your ASA registration gets you at a very minimum one current year's rule book. Just a guess, if you called your J.O. in your area he would gladly supply with as many rule books you asked for.

And yes, the rule sets for baseball and ASA softball differ greatly in many (not just a few) circumstances. Welcome to coaching one of the best (if not the best) stick and ball sports in the world. The faster paced game of fastpitch softball is so much pleasing to watch imo.

[argodad]

Originally Posted by goodbook

I have learned to not get too excited with any umpire in softball because these rules are different in a few specific cicumstances for sure.

Thanks again to all for their help educating me!!

Wow! A coach (and a little ball guy, no less) who understands that they are different games with different rules! Welcome goodbook ... you've found a good resource for softball rules.