FED Pitching Question

[Manny A]

Sitch: High School game under NFHS rules. Runners at first and third. F1 steps on the plate with the hands separated. She brings her hands together and looks at F2 to receive the sign. Coach then shouts from the dugout, "4-5-1, 4-5-1!"

Upon hearing this, F2 steps forward in front of the plate and starts giving hand signals to the defense. F1, seeing this, separates her hands, waiting for the signals to be given. F2 then takes her position, and F1 brings her hands together again to look in for the sign.

Anything?

[RKBUmp]

By rule she is suppose to take or simulate taking the signal with the hands separated. Was the catcher in position prior to stepping out to give the signals? Rule says pitcher is not considered to be in position unless the catcher is within the lines of the catchers box and in position to receive the pitch. Brings up a question in itself, if the catcher was in position and as you said stepped out in front of the plate does that reset the conditions for the pitcher?

Another question, pitcher has 20 seconds to deliver the pitcher after receiving the ball, did all this happen within the 20 second limit?

[MD Longhorn]

Illegal pitch. Once she is on the plate and separates her hands, she's pitching. Bringing them back together is illegal.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Illegal pitch. Once she is on the plate and separates her hands, she's pitching. Bringing them back together is illegal.

Not to mention the catcher leaving the box after the pitcher is in position,

[AtlUmpSteve]

1) When she stepped on with hands separated, as long as she didn't immediately start to bring her hands together, she has met the requirement to simulate taking a signal. The fact that you believe she actually took the signal after her hands are together is immaterial, as long as she complies with the necessary hesitation (simulating).

2) There is a reason why the rule says the umpire may NOT grant time once the pitcher has brought her hands together; if you cannot grant time, the catcher stepping out cannot change the sequence, stop the sequence, nor create "time".

3) There is only one legal way for the pitcher to stop at that point; she must step back off the pitcher's plate before she can legally separate her hands, absent starting her pitch.

4) If she did NOT separate, but simply waited, the 10 second count to start the pitch would still be ticking.

5) Yep, illegal pitch. Sorry coach, you created it. I hate that you didn't call the steal defense signal until your pitcher had initiated her sequence, but you did it, and the offense is entitled to the penalty the rule spells out.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Not to mention the catcher leaving the box after the pitcher is in position,

True ... illegal pitch for 2 reasons (3 if she takes longer than her allotted time) .. IP whichever happens first.

One thing that is NOT illegal here is the "taking the signs" part, which I am guessing is what the OP'er was attempting to actually be asking about and the first responder was referring to.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

True ... illegal pitch for 2 reasons (3 if she takes longer than her allotted time) .. IP whichever happens first.

One thing that is NOT illegal here is the "taking the signs" part, which I am guessing is what the OP'er was attempting to actually be asking about and the first responder was referring to.

Taking longer is simply a ball on the batter. I don't think that's an illegal pitch.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Taking longer is simply a ball on the batter. I don't think that's an illegal pitch.

Depends on which time limit they violate. Taking longer than 20 seconds to deliver the pitch is just a ball on the batter. Holding the hands together longer than 10 seconds is an illegal pitch.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

One thing that is NOT illegal here is the "taking the signs" part, which I am guessing is what the OP'er was attempting to actually be asking about and the first responder was referring to.

No, actually I was wondering what happens when the catcher left her position.

FED rule 6-1-1d says, "The pitcher shall not be considered to be in pitching position unless the catcher is within the lines of the catcher’s box and in position to receive the pitch." But the rule doesn't say anything about what happens should the catcher start in that position but then leave it. Nor does rule 6-3-1 say that the catcher must stay in her position once she's established it.

So, if the battery gets set, and the catcher for whatever reason leaves her position, are we to call Illegal Pitch at that point? If not, then why should we rule IP if the pitcher then separates her hands? After all, when the catcher is not in her position, then the pitcher, by 6-1-1d, is not considered to be in the pitching position?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

No, actually I was wondering what happens when the catcher left her position.

FED rule 6-1-1d says, "The pitcher shall not be considered to be in pitching position unless the catcher is within the lines of the catcher’s box and in position to receive the pitch." But the rule doesn't say anything about what happens should the catcher start in that position but then leave it. Nor does rule 6-3-1 say that the catcher must stay in her position once she's established it.

So, if the battery gets set, and the catcher for whatever reason leaves her position, are we to call Illegal Pitch at that point? If not, then why should we rule IP if the pitcher then separates her hands? After all, when the catcher is not in her position, then the pitcher, by 6-1-1d, is not considered to be in the pitching position?

See 6-3-1. True, the literal wording does not say and there is no case, but "and" means continuously, not stepping out during the windup or pitch.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

FED rule 6-1-1d says, "The pitcher shall not be considered to be in pitching position unless the catcher is within the lines of the catcher’s box and in position to receive the pitch." But the rule doesn't say anything about what happens should the catcher start in that position but then leave it.

Right... the rule doesn't say anything about the pitcher losing her status of "being in the pitching position" if the catcher leaves hers... because she doesn't lose that status. You tossed the baby out with the bathwater if this was the part of the rule you were wishing to examine. Once she's started the pitch, she's pitching. If you just wanted to look at the catcher part - probably should not include anything about the pitcher separating.

In any case, it's an IP when the catcher stands up and leaves the box if she does so prior to us calling an IP for the pitcher retouching.

[Tex]

Illegal Pitch

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

See 6-3-1. True, the literal wording does not say and there is no case, but "and" means continuously, not stepping out during the windup or pitch.

Maybe I'm thick-headed, but that's not how I read it. I interpret it as being an IP violation if the catcher suddenly moves outside her box as the pitcher begins her delivery.

Let's say the pitcher engages the plate with hands separated, and the catcher moves into her box and squats down. There's some miscommunication between the two on signs, and the catcher steps up and starts trotting toward the pitcher. When she's a couple of steps in front of the plate, she turns and requests Time. Are we supposed to bang her for an IP? Is that the true intent of 6-3-1?

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Maybe I'm thick-headed, but that's not how I read it. I interpret it as being an IP violation if the catcher suddenly moves outside her box as the pitcher begins her delivery.

Let's say the pitcher engages the plate with hands separated, and the catcher moves into her box and squats down. There's some miscommunication between the two on signs, and the catcher steps up and starts trotting toward the pitcher. When she's a couple of steps in front of the plate, she turns and requests Time. Are we supposed to bang her for an IP? Is that the true intent of 6-3-1?

Once an illegal pitch has been committed thrown or not it should be enforced before giving a timeout.