borderline pitches

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

There's no borderline. Either it touched the strike zone or it didn't.

There is a comment in a manual, CCA I think, which says call borderline pitches a strike. I thought my analyzing it would create a good discussion.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

There is a comment in a manual, CCA I think, which says call borderline pitches a strike. I thought my analyzing it would create a good discussion.

If, by that, they mean that if a sliver of the ball touches the very edge of the zone, it's to be called a strike ... then yes - that's a strike - by rule.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

.... The mindset of "I'm going to give the pitcher's this" or "I'm going to give the batters that" or even "which way should I lean when in doubt" leads to bad umpiring.

Speaking for myself, it does lead to an inconsistent zone. I know using a term like "my strike zone" can get people (especially coaches) agitated, but in reality, I need to home in on "my zone" to be consistent.

As I mentioned above, sometimes with low-level pitching, I have to expand the zone just to survive the game, but I don't kid myself. My "adjusted" zone is not nearly as consistent as "my zone".

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The mindset of "I'm going to give the pitcher's this" or "I'm going to give the batters that" or even "which way should I lean when in doubt" leads to bad umpiring.

Absolutely, that, +1.

[xtremeump]

I am very impressed with everyone on here as there ability to post. As a Coach when I took my team to the Eastern ASA Nationals 14U (A) we played over 60 games that summer. I taught my team that every Umpire is going to be different. I know nobody here will believe that but it is 100% True. My Hitting coach loved the Book Rule K-Zone, my Pitching coach loved the outside K-Zone. Now as an Umpire Call the same for both teams all of the time. We get paid for Strikes and Outs. Be consistent and you will have good Game Management.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

. . .We get paid for Strikes and Outs. . .

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I think I understand what you are trying to say here...but I have a problem going on record with this.

We get paid to call the game to the best of our abilities and to enforce the rules fairly and impartially; and to give teams their money's worth and nothing more.

[shagpal]

There are other edges to consider that vary from person to person. Quoting definitions is rote and for discussion boorish.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If, by that, they mean that if a sliver of the ball touches the very edge of the zone, it's to be called a strike ... then yes - that's a strike - by rule.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

I am very impressed with everyone on here as there ability to post. As a Coach when I took my team to the Eastern ASA Nationals 14U (A) we played over 60 games that summer. I taught my team that every Umpire is going to be different. I know nobody here will believe that but it is 100% True. My Hitting coach loved the Book Rule K-Zone, my Pitching coach loved the outside K-Zone. Now as an Umpire Call the same for both teams all of the time. We get paid for Strikes and Outs. Be consistent and you will have good Game Management.

I got what you're saying. Far too many times I have observed umpires at games and heard, "Where was that pitch?" asked within the defensive dugout among the coaching staff. No, I'm not talking about actually questioning balls & strikes to the umpire. If you hear, "Where was that," "Right at the knees" etc. more often than, "Take that one to right field" or "Go the other way with it" then you might want to re-evaluate your view of the strike zone.

Likewise, if you're calling more bang-bang plays safe than out, you may want to reconsider whether you truly "stop-set-focus-hold and make the call." Too many umpires see the runner about to hit the base and forget that the ball is traveling at least 5x faster than the runner in most cases. A decently thrown ball that is 15 feet from the base will likely beat a runner who is 3 feet from the base.

No one wants to hear, "Leave it up there Mary" or "Nine iron" and I don't advocate umpiring in a way that will bring that on. But pitchers pay too much money to perfect their pitching to have umpires calling the "money pitch" a ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

But pitchers pay too much money to perfect their pitching to have umpires calling the "money pitch" a ball.

You are assuming what they believe to be the "money" pitch is actually a strike.

And yes, many pay too much money, but that is another story.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I think I understand what you are trying to say here...but I have a problem going on record with this.

We get paid to call the game to the best of our abilities and to enforce the rules fairly and impartially; and to give teams their money's worth and nothing more.

Just an older Umpire Quote that I have picked up. I say it all of the time (Umpire to Umpire). We are unrealistic to think that every Umpire is going to call a book rule K, my point is that everyone knows that. Call a realistic K-zone for both teams and you will have a much better game. I am not saying in any way to cheat, what I am saying is that if you do many fast pitch games and have a small K-zone (Book Rule) you are not giving the teams their money's worth. On this forum I know that I never will be right but this is the way I was taught, and it works. Happy Thanksgiving and remember our Troops in harms way that are protecting us.

[MichaelVA2000]

I doubt you will ever hear a coach tell an umpire he's calling too many strikes. I'm thinking strike from the moment the ball leaves the pitchers hand.

[shipwreck]

The NCAA manual says call borderline pitches, strikes. Dave

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MichaelVA2000

I doubt you will ever hear a coach tell an umpire he's calling too many strikes.

Unless the coach's team is at bat.

[DRJ1960]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Unless the coach's team is at bat.

Yep

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by michaelva2000

i doubt you will ever hear a coach tell an umpire he's calling too many strikes. I'm thinking strike from the moment the ball leaves the pitchers hand.

-1