Too many pitches

[MD Longhorn]

Curious how you guys handle this. I'm very diligent with the 5-pitch warm-up between half-innings. How do you handle a partner who is not? As BU, I generally move to my starting position at pitch 5, whether PU has called for balls-in or not. Many teams just know they get 5 --- but some will pitch until told to stop.

Had one such partner this weekend. Found myself calling balls-in for him. Felt weird and somewhat inappropriate doing that, as I know it bugs me when partner does that and I'm PU.

At what point do you step in and call balls-in? (if ever).
At what point do you come in between half innings to say something, and if so, what do you say.

In one game I was observing, this partner allowed no less than TWENTY-ONE warm-up pitches, and his partner didn't do anything. He didn't even stop it - the catcher actually turned around and asked, "Should I throw down now?"

Same partner took 6-7 minutes to handle a straightforward substitution.

[PtotheB]

I give the pitchers five pitches in the first inning after that it's three at the most unless I have a sub or something. They have one minute from the time of the last out to when I should be able to point the ball in play. If they're draggin' butt getting out there or the pitcher wants to play "Farmville" grooming the circle they might not get any pitches at all. Do it once and they'll get the idea.
As far as a partner who lets things drag we would have to have a talk. I will call balls in if I know he or she is working a sub and is just about done. That way they can walk up to the plate and we're ready.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by PtotheB

I give the pitchers five pitches in the first inning after that it's three at the most unless I have a sub or something...

Why do you deviate from the actual rule as it is written? Is that just something you came up with on your own, because you think it's better that way, or have you been instructed to do this? The rules say they get five warm-up throws and, for that reason alone, I tend to let them take five (still subject to the one-minute time allowed).

As for mbc's question...I generally leave this up to the plate umpire. Then again, usually the guys I work with won't allow 21 between inning warm-up throws! It's not really my policy to butt in here, but that's pretty excessive. I can see myself maybe saying to the pitcher, "You have one more warm-up pitch", once she hits...I don't know...maybe 10? 8? 12? Guess it depends on what the plate umpire is doing while I'm just standing there and how sick I am of watching warm-up pitches and wasting time!

Since I'm going to be fairly close to first base and right field to begin with, I might say just loud enough for F3 and F9 to hear me, "Let's bring 'em in". That should end the fielding practice without drawing much attention.

If the plate umpire has an issue with me butting in like that, then he should learn how to manage a ballgame so I don't have to! Somewhere between 5 and 21 throws there has to be some point where you say "enough is enough" and try to get the game moving along again.

[marvin]

I find that automatically limiting the teams to 3 warm-up pitches does not speed things up. I do find that being attentive and enforcing the one minute limit on time does. An automatic limit is contrary to the rules. Why would you want to penalize a team that is hustling and can get five in if they want?

In NFHS the pitcher is allowed to throw more if the plate umpire is being attentive to other umpiring duties.

As a base umpire you probably have bigger problems if your partner is not paying attention between innings. I will call balls in if the plate ump is obviously not taking care of other umpiring duties, but if your partner is a wandering story teller who is at the backstop interacting with the fans, entertaining the crowd, or regaling the coaches with war stories you will have a long game with no rhythm to it no matter what you do.

I am speaking about high school - other rule sets may be different and most tourneys have their own between inning rules, which is fine as long as they are applied consistently.

NFHS:

ART. 5 . . . At the beginning of each half-inning or when a pitcher relieves another, no more than one minute may be used to deliver no more than five balls to the catcher or other teammate. The one-minute time limit begins from the third out of the previous half-inning. Play shall be suspended during this time.
NOTES: 1. A pitcher returning in the same half inning will not be granted any warm-up pitches.
2. Umpire is authorized to allow more pitches when weather is inclement or if pitcher was removed due to an injury.
PENALTY: (Art. 5) For excessive warm-up pitches, a pitcher shall be penalized by awarding a ball to the batter for each pitch in excess of five. This does not apply if the umpire delays the start of play due to substitution, conference, injuries, etc.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Why do you deviate from the actual rule as it is written?...

Some (maybe even all?) of our summer ball leagues around here have that in their rules. This means that even many of the high school teams get used to it and on their own limit themselves to 3. No self-respecting catcher over the age of 12 should want the umpire telling them when to throw down.

[Skahtboi]

NCAA they get five warm up pitches.

Everyone else they have 1 minute to deliver not more than 5 warm up pitches.

If my partner is not enforcing this, I remind him of the rule, and that we are there to enforce such rules. I have never had to remind anyone more than once, though I am sure I have had plenty of partners leave a game with me in this situation who think that I am a real hard ***.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by marvin

I find that automatically limiting the teams to 3 warm-up pitches does not speed things up. I do find that being attentive and enforcing the one minute limit on time does. An automatic limit is contrary to the rules. Why would you want to penalize a team that is hustling and can get five in if they want?

In NFHS the pitcher is allowed to throw more if the plate umpire is being attentive to other umpiring duties.

As a base umpire you probably have bigger problems if your partner is not paying attention between innings. I will call balls in if the plate ump is obviously not taking care of other umpiring duties, but if your partner is a wandering story teller who is at the backstop interacting with the fans, entertaining the crowd, or regaling the coaches with war stories you will have a long game with no rhythm to it no matter what you do.

I am speaking about high school - other rule sets may be different and most tourneys have their own between inning rules, which is fine as long as they are applied consistently.

NFHS:

There is no penalty for excessive warm-ups if the umpire is busy with other duties such as a sub. If you have to hold up the game for other umpire duties there is no reason not to allow the pitcher more pitches. The 5 pitches/one minute rule is there to keep the game moving. If play is delayed for other reasons they can pitch until I'm done with my other duties.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is no penalty for excessive warm-ups if the umpire is busy with other duties such as a sub. If you have to hold up the game for other umpire duties there is no reason not to allow the pitcher more pitches. The 5 pitches/one minute rule is there to keep the game moving. If play is delayed for other reasons they can pitch until I'm done with my other duties.

I would agree completely IF the defense was ready to play when you get done with your other duties. I would prefer the defense know the rule, apply the rule, my partner assist in getting the rule applied; then the throw down, team meeting, pattycake and team dance, can all happen.

If I am still tied up when all that is done, if the pitcher ASKS, I would allow (or expect my partner to allow) additional pitches.

Just my style of game management, keeping the game moving.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PtotheB

I give the pitchers five pitches in the first inning after that it's three at the most unless I have a sub or something.

You should know that most here really dislike rule-inventors.

[PtotheB]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Why do you deviate from the actual rule as it is written? Is that just something you came up with on your own, because you think it's better that way, or have you been instructed to do this? The rules say they get five warm-up throws and, for that reason alone, I tend to let them take five (still subject to the one-minute time allowed).

Have you ever timed how long it takes from the third out to when both teams are ready to play? Even with three pitches it usually takes longer than a minute. If your teams can consitently get five pitches in under the one minute time limit then I'm very impressed.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PtotheB

Have you ever timed how long it takes from the third out to when both teams are ready to play? Even with three pitches it usually takes longer than a minute. If your teams can consitently get five pitches in under the one minute time limit then I'm very impressed.

Fair point ... but then why 3 pitches? They get 60 seconds, or they get 5 pitches, whatever comes first. If that means they get zero pitches then they get zero pitches. Giving them 3 just because you think they don't have time for 5 is kind of silly. Give them 60 seconds. However many that makes.

One note - we used to have a problem in our area with one team, and no one would address it. So I did. After 2 innings of zero pitches, they got their 5 every inning of every game after that (at least the ones I worked, which was the majority).

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by PtotheB

Have you ever timed how long it takes from the third out to when both teams are ready to play? Even with three pitches it usually takes longer than a minute. If your teams can consitently get five pitches in under the one minute time limit then I'm very impressed.

Sorry if I sound confused...but I am. Your first post didn't mention anything about the one-minute rule. You just said that after the first inning you give them "three at the most" warm-up throws.

If you think that five warm-up pitches can't be thrown in one minute, why do you allow five in the first inning? Is there something special about the first inning where you would want to not enforce the one-minute time limit, then crack down with a vengance for the next six innings?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Sorry if I sound confused...but I am. Your first post didn't mention anything about the one-minute rule. You just said that after the first inning you give them "three at the most" warm-up throws.

If you think that five warm-up pitches can't be thrown in one minute, why do you allow five in the first inning? Is there something special about the first inning where you would want to not enforce the one-minute time limit, then crack down with a vengance for the next six innings?

The biggest delay in the top of the first inning is getting the home team on the field after the plate meeting. But just a point... when do YOU start the 1 minute time in the top of the first?

Also, I tend to give a team a bit of "grace" on the time if the catcher was at bat or on the bases at the end of the inning. And, in general, I only actually "time" the one minute if lollygagging is a problem. I don't monitor whether they take 50 seconds or 90 seconds; but several minutes? I'll cut them short on pitches, and then monitor more closely for the rest of the game.

I will say that excessive time is not a big deal with our leagues that do have the 3 pitch local rule. It does tend to keep things moving.

[PtotheB]

Originally Posted by PtotheB

I give the pitchers five pitches in the first inning after that it's three at the most unless I have a sub or something. They have one minute from the time of the last out to when I should be able to point the ball in play.

Second sentence, not too hard to find.
As far as a special significance to the first inning, no, just the way I was taught, accepted practice everywhere I've been and I've never been dinged on it during an evaluation or ever even been commented on by a partner but then again I've never had the distinct privelege of working with you so you could correct me.

[tcannizzo]

Speaking ASA Championship, as per ASA Code, game clock starts on the first pitch of the game; which is what is strictly being enforced in NQs.

In normal tournaments, I will start the clock as the coaches enter the team areas after the plate meeting, because I also want to have 1-minute in the top of the first.

As for getting 5 pitches in 60 seconds, that is not a problem, unless the P was late getting out of the dugout, or fixing a hair ribbon, etc.

If C is late getting out of dugout, coach better be warming up P. There have been times where P got zero warm-ups because C was late and no coach to take warm-ups. Other times it will either be 3 or 2 or 1 pitch. Don't ever recall giving 4.

If coach takes the 5th warm-up, C does not get a "throw down", it is Batter Up, although I usually mention to coach after 4 pitches that if he wants C to get a throw to wait, unless we go past the 60 seconds.

Then if Batter Up has been called an P is not ready to pitch in 10 seconds, it is Ball 1.