Daily trivia (ASA)

[MD Longhorn]

Runner at 2nd, 2-2 count. The batter squares up to bunt, trying to sacrifice the runner to 3rd. The pitch comes in, and the batter decides not to offer and pulls her bat back. However, she can't get it out of the way in time. It makes contact and the ball lands foul. What's the call?

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Runner at 2nd, 2-2 count. The batter squares up to bunt, trying to sacrifice the runner to 3rd. The pitch comes in, and the batter decides not to offer and pulls her bat back. However, she can't get it out of the way in time. It makes contact and the ball lands foul. What's the call?

FP: Foul. Batter was in the act of pulling the bat back so the batter was not attempting to bunt.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Runner at 2nd, 2-2 count. The batter squares up to bunt, trying to sacrifice the runner to 3rd. The pitch comes in, and the batter decides not to offer and pulls her bat back. However, she can't get it out of the way in time. It makes contact and the ball lands foul. What's the call?

Bolded wording, a little vague.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Bolded wording, a little vague.

She tries to pull the bat back, but doesn't pull it back fast enough and the ball still hits the bat.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

She tries to pull the bat back, but doesn't pull it back fast enough and the ball still hits the bat.

Wow, that I got , just not sure how far and how held.


If that means still in a bunt position; then a foul bunt, out.

[MD Longhorn]

The question here really is this: When does the "bunt attempt" end? According to the definition of bunt, it's only a bunt if the ball is "intentionally tapped by the bat". If the ball strikes the bat while the batter is in the process of trying to pull the bat back and NOT attempt to hit it, is this enough to say that the ball is no longer intentionally being tapped?

I admit, my first answer to this question was OUT.

But upon re-reading the definition and some discussion on another board, I'm inclined to change my mind.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The question here really is this: When does the "bunt attempt" end? According to the definition of bunt, it's only a bunt if the ball is "intentionally tapped by the bat". If the ball strikes the bat while the batter is in the process of trying to pull the bat back and NOT attempt to hit it, is this enough to say that the ball is no longer intentionally being tapped?

I admit, my first answer to this question was OUT.

But upon re-reading the definition and some discussion on another board, I'm inclined to change my mind.

The rule doesn't say anything about attempt. The definition of bunt says nothing about attempt. And there is nothing in the definition of a bunt that notes a batter's position, stance, manner in which bat is held, yada, yada, yada. Under what is being posted here, if the batter is pulling the bat back when the all touches it, it cannot be a bunt.

Seems to me we are back to people trying to find a reason to excuse a player for failing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Runner at 2nd, 2-2 count. The batter squares up to bunt, trying to sacrifice the runner to 3rd. The pitch comes in, and the batter decides not to offer and pulls her bat back. However, she can't get it out of the way in time. It makes contact and the ball lands foul. What's the call?

Foul and out.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Foul and out.

Irish, IMO it's not a bunt attempt. The batter is not swinging or trying to intentionally tap the ball with the bat. Once the batter has shown bunt, is the bunt attempt still in effect even thought the batter is drawing the bat back? Many thanks.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Let's take this from another angle. What if there were a NCAA or NFHS game where the definition of an attempted bunt has a twist to it.

Would your ruling be the same?

[Andy]

When I first saw this play posted on the FB page, I initially answered that all I have is a foul ball and the batter remains at bat. My question was the same one MD Longhorn mentioned..."when does the bunt attempt end?"

I'm guessing that we will just need to file this one under a HTBT because there is way too much gray area here to provide a definitive ruling. I do think I would know what to call when I saw it, though...

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

If that is the case, obviousl, that would be up to the umpire's judgment and it is going to be a tough call either way. It is not like an umpire actually has time, or would it be a priority, to see and try to determine the intent of the batter in this situation. And I do not believe there is a steadfast response here.

As simple as this seems, there may be a lot going on with this play. At what point is the batter not trying to hit the ball? The OP noted that the batter decided not to offer, but as an umpire, you do not know that. Where is the line that the umpire would know that? How do you as the umpire know when and how to determine that batter's intent?

The OP also states the "she can't get it out of the way in time", so apparently the bat was still in a position to bunt the ball. And who placed the bat in such a position with the intent to bunt the ball?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Let's take this from another angle. What if there were a NCAA or NFHS game where the definition of an attempted bunt has a twist to it.

Would your ruling be the same?

My question was a simple rule question, no judgment required since the OP told us the batter was no longer attempting to bunt.

I do agree that getting TO that position is a tricky bit.

As it turns out, I have made this call one time. In my case, though, the judgment was easy. The batter squared to bunt, but the pitch comes in "high and tight" as they say. The batter was bailing/diving out of the batter's box and the pitch hits the bat. The batter was clearly not making any attempt to do anything but trying to avoid getting hit in the head.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The batter squared to bunt, but the pitch comes in "high and tight" as they say. The batter was bailing/diving out of the batter's box and the pitch hits the bat. The batter was clearly not making any attempt to do anything but trying to avoid getting hit in the head.

Perfect example of the OP. I would not rule this an attempt to bunt - and if there were 2 strikes before that, I would not rule her out.

I'm curious to hear Mike's or Steve's opinion on exactly this situation though.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Perfect example of the OP. I would not rule this an attempt to bunt - and if there were 2 strikes before that, I would not rule her out.

I'm curious to hear Mike's or Steve's opinion on exactly this situation though.

I don't it is a perfect example of the OP. The OP stated that batter didn't pull the bat back in time, not was trying to avoid being hit by the pitch.

And I'm visualizing it in real time. In spite of what the OP stated, I don't believe an umpire has that much time to make the decision of intent if the batter is simply pulling the bat BACK.

Maybe the problem here is that there just isn't enough definitive information or too much supposition to come to a conclusion.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Perfect example of the OP. I would not rule this an attempt to bunt - and if there were 2 strikes before that, I would not rule her out.

I'm curious to hear Mike's or Steve's opinion on exactly this situation though.

OK, my $.02.

Assume initially that you are ruling in a ruleset that requires you to pull the bat back to be judged "not a bunt" (NCAA or NFHS), the batter does whatever she does, and the ball DOESN'T hit the bat.

Now, in any given description of what the batter did, did she remove the bat sufficiently to NOT be a bunt attempt in that ruleset? If yes, then it isn't a bunt attempt, either, if the ball DOES accidentally hits the bat. But, if you consider that the batter, irrespective of any intent, still left the bat in the hitting area and insufficiently or belatedly pulled it back, then you still have a bunt attempt. And this, in my mind, applies in the rulesets (ASA) where it isn't necessary to pull back, too (just using that judgment process); if the bat is left in the hitting area and contacts the ball, it is a bunt attempt.

I won't/don't use intent at all in my judgment. After all, then every attempted checked swing means the batter's intent was to unswing!! And once she did, she did, and cannot unswing. Cannot unbunt, either, once attempted to bunt; can only "unsquare" prior to bunting.