Different way to handle this ?

[Chess Ref]

ASA pool play 16U.

I'm BU. R1 on 1B. Runner breaks for 2B on a steal. Does this hook slide, and rolls off the bag screaming in agony.

When I say screaming, I mean screaming, it's obvious she's injured.

The ball was launched into centerfield by the catcher.

So runner is laying on the ground screaming,not on the bag, ball is in centerfield and I come up with "Dead Ball".

My initial thought was she pulled her shoulder out of place.

Offensive coaches come out to tend her.

Defensive coach comes out to beef about how they should get an out on the play because his player tagged her when she was rolling on the ground. I give him "err on side of safety spiel" and he reluctantly accepts it.

My question is did I handle this correctly ?

PS. Not relevant to post, but it ended up being a broken wrist.

[dlsumpntx]

You did the right thing.

[CecilOne]

As long as you thought the runner needed immediate attention, then "dead ball" should be immediate. I think that's the last section in Rule 4.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Chess Ref

ASA pool play 16U.

I'm BU. R1 on 1B. Runner breaks for 2B on a steal. Does this hook slide, and rolls off the bag screaming in agony.

When I say screaming, I mean screaming, it's obvious she's injured.

The ball was launched into centerfield by the catcher.

So runner is laying on the ground screaming,not on the bag, ball is in centerfield and I come up with "Dead Ball".

My initial thought was she pulled her shoulder out of place.

Offensive coaches come out to tend her.

Defensive coach comes out to beef about how they should get an out on the play because his player tagged her when she was rolling on the ground. I give him "err on side of safety spiel" and he reluctantly accepts it.

My question is did I handle this correctly ?

PS. Not relevant to post, but it ended up being a broken wrist.

This is the part I hate about this rule. Assuming you are not a trained medical professional, how do you really know?

IMO, I would not have killed the play. This is not an injury which requires "immediate" attention. IMJ, no blood, no bones, not a head injury, not stopping play.

P.S., not related to the question, but how do you break a wrist on a hook slide?

[Chess Ref]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

P.S., not related to the question, but how do you break a wrist on a hook slide?

Badly executed.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is the part I hate about this rule. Assuming you are not a trained medical professional, how do you really know?

IMO, I would not have killed the play. This is not an injury which requires "immediate" attention. IMJ, no blood, no bones, not a head injury, not stopping play.

P.S., not related to the question, but how do you break a wrist on a hook slide?

I think you state exatly why you should kill this play. You are not a trained medical professional. When the player goes down screaming in pain, you are not trained to know what the issue is. At that point you need to kill the play. If the player had simply slipped and turned an ankle, but isn't screaming in pain it is one thing. When they are immediately screaming in pain you don't know why since you are not a trained medical professional.

The safest bet is to kill the play when you suspect an injury may be serious.

Also, something to remember. An injury such as a dislocated shoulder can actually be potentially life threatening. Joints have a lot of blood vessels running in them. When a joint is seriously injured, the extent of the injury is not know immediately, thus it may need immediate treatment.

Always play it safe, and assume the injury is serious and kill the play. It's better to use the safety discussion than have someone who might not be seriously hurt be hurt.

[KJUmp]

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.
You were there, we weren't.
You did the right thing.
As for the DC......just when you think you've seen and heard it all.

[Skahtboi]

I would agree with the actions Chess Ref took. Screaming isn't a usual action in this situation, and would indicate something is probably (and was) drastically wrong.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

I would agree with the actions Chess Ref took. Screaming isn't a usual action in this situation, and would indicate something is probably (and was) drastically wrong.

No, a fractured wrist is not drastic, in hindsight.
....................................

Irish's point was that many injuries cause a lot of pain, but are not life or disability threatening and will not get worse or more serious in a minute or two
("no blood, no bones, not a head injury" also neck/back).

That is the problem, knowing which category, and even if not "by the book"; if possibly any of the bold above, I would kill the play.
Yes, most of us do not have medical training, which is why we have to err on the side of caution, especially with minors.

In fairness & common sense, the runner should not be out (although out "by the book"); so killing it avoids that.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think you state exatly why you should kill this play. You are not a trained medical professional. When the player goes down screaming in pain, you are not trained to know what the issue is. At that point you need to kill the play. If the player had simply slipped and turned an ankle, but isn't screaming in pain it is one thing. When they are immediately screaming in pain you don't know why since you are not a trained medical professional.

The safest bet is to kill the play when you suspect an injury may be serious.

Also, something to remember. An injury such as a dislocated shoulder can actually be potentially life threatening. Joints have a lot of blood vessels running in them. When a joint is seriously injured, the extent of the injury is not know immediately, thus it may need immediate treatment.

Always play it safe, and assume the injury is serious and kill the play. It's better to use the safety discussion than have someone who might not be seriously hurt be hurt.

Well, I'm old school and there to umpire a game played. I assume nothing and to me a scream is just a scream. Seen way too many players scream and cry and are attempting to steal a base on the next pitch or so.

IMO, if they want to alter the rules of the game on a maybe and what if, that player should need to sit. If it was bad enough to stop the play, it is bad enough for the player to stop playing.

My brother would claim this is just another example of the continuing weakening of America and while I am not of the same train of thought, I would not necessarily disagree with him.

JMHO

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I think you state exatly why you should kill this play. You are not a trained medical professional. When the player goes down screaming in pain, you are not trained to know what the issue is. At that point you need to kill the play. If the player had simply slipped and turned an ankle, but isn't screaming in pain it is one thing. When they are immediately screaming in pain you don't know why since you are not a trained medical professional.

The safest bet is to kill the play when you suspect an injury may be serious.

Also, something to remember. An injury such as a dislocated shoulder can actually be potentially life threatening. Joints have a lot of blood vessels running in them. When a joint is seriously injured, the extent of the injury is not know immediately, thus it may need immediate treatment.

Always play it safe, and assume the injury is serious and kill the play. It's better to use the safety discussion than have someone who might not be seriously hurt be hurt.

+10,000

MTD, Sr.

[MD Longhorn]

I land on Mike's side on this. Unless seconds are at stake, play shouldn't be killed. Killing a play like this one early might get a coach out there 10 seconds faster ... but if it really is one of those issues several of you brought up, are we really getting anyone who could make an actual difference to the scene any earlier?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Also, something to remember. An injury such as a dislocated shoulder can actually be potentially life threatening. Joints have a lot of blood vessels running in them. When a joint is seriously injured, the extent of the injury is not know immediately, thus it may need immediate treatment.

The time it takes to let the play end naturally (in this case, F8 retrieves the errant throw, throws it back to F4, and F4 tags the runner) is not going to make a hill of beans difference to the player's outcome. You're talking a few seconds, not tens of minutes, that will elapse before someone comes to the player's aid.

What you do when you call time immediately in a situation like the OP is nothing more than avoid being labeled unsympathetic. While that might be the right thing to do when dealing with 10U girls in rec league play, it's not really wise at the higher levels, especially during championship play. And from a medical standpoint, you're not gaining the player anything.

Suppose this was a runner who severely twisted her ankle rounding second base, and she falls in writhing pain between second and third. Why should we kill the play immediately and award the runner either second or third? I know I may sound like an ogre here, but she did it to herself, so she shouldn't be given a free pass.

Yes, if the injury is to the head, and/or it's gruesome in nature like the kid on the Louisville basketball team, go ahead and kill it immediately. Otherwise, there's no reason to stop play. The sport is such that injuries are going to happen, and participants have to understand and accept that.