UIC interference

[Dutch Alex]

The following happened to me last Saturday and I'm more than angry!

Bases ampty, outs of none importance. A long, hard hit into right field. Got stuck at the fence. Got it stock? I don't know! F9 stands with the arms in the air, as a signal that the ball got stuck. Just before I, as BU, can kill the play and go over there to look at the ball an optic-yellow ball is thrown into the diamond.
I look again, it was really F9 throwing the ball! B-R was on her way to 3th base as F9 was standing with the arms up.
My instant thought was and is, let the runner stay on 3th; not sending her back to 2nd. We have an agreement: "Pick it up, then you play on. Let it lay on the ground, BU will come over to have a look!"

How ever, as I gave the signal that the runner will stay on base 3 our National IUC stepped in. He spoke to my PU. As I noticed it and I wasn't invited; I rushed over. At that point their conversation was over. The PU ordered the runner back to 2nd base.
As I asked what the F... was going on, PU informed me that UIC instructed him that way. He, the PU, killed the play by signal -not verbal-. I didn't see (nor hear) that! So runner has to go back to 2nd...

Did anyone had this unappropriated / unexpected / unwanted kind of misbehavior happened to him before? How did you handle this? What could I do [then and now]? -note: we work this union, or we work not / The Neth.'s have only one union-

[EsqUmp]

The only thing I would say is that there is no such thing as "pick it up - play on." It is one thing to consider that if the ball is picked up it is more difficult to make a ruling saying that it is out. It's quite another thing to say "pick it up - play on" as a written in stone theory. And the theory would be wrong.

Maybe the UIC was trying to prevent a $h!t storm because other people say the plate umpire call dead ball. Who knows? Did you ask the UIC?

[okla21fan]

When I UIC Championship play, I will never , ever, ever, approach the umpire(s) on a field unless I am requested by those umpires themselves. (even if I see something 'wrong' or what I perceive as 'wrong') I have had coaches and others come to me and ask that I 'rule' on something on a field, but I will do no such thing unless I am called over by the umpire(s).

and yes, if a defensive player 'brings' a blocked or dead ball back into play and the umpires have not seen or called the ball dead yet, the ball is still live. (saw this last year on the the HOF field last year at the 18u Gold nationals. and I go over this very thing at the pre game plate conferences with the coaches.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dutch Alex

The following happened to me last Saturday and I'm more than angry!

Bases ampty, outs of none importance. A long, hard hit into right field. Got stuck at the fence. Got it stock? I don't know! F9 stands with the arms in the air, as a signal that the ball got stuck. Just before I, as BU, can kill the play and go over there to look at the ball an optic-yellow ball is thrown into the diamond.
I look again, it was really F9 throwing the ball! B-R was on her way to 3th base as F9 was standing with the arms up.
My instant thought was and is, let the runner stay on 3th; not sending her back to 2nd. We have an agreement: "Pick it up, then you play on. Let it lay on the ground, BU will come over to have a look!"

How ever, as I gave the signal that the runner will stay on base 3 our National IUC stepped in. He spoke to my PU. As I noticed it and I wasn't invited; I rushed over. At that point their conversation was over. The PU ordered the runner back to 2nd base.
As I asked what the F... was going on, PU informed me that UIC instructed him that way. He, the PU, killed the play by signal -not verbal-. I didn't see (nor hear) that! So runner has to go back to 2nd...

Did anyone had this unappropriated / unexpected / unwanted kind of misbehavior happened to him before? How did you handle this? What could I do [then and now]? -note: we work this union, or we work not / The Neth.'s have only one union-

To start, YOU as the BU do NOT kill the play. That is the PU's job. Second, you always let the play finish, whether the defense has their arms in the air or not, they do not determine when play is stopped or over.

If the PU did kill the ball, shame on him, but this is the PU's call, not yours.

The UIC shouldn't have even been there unless needed to rule on a protest. I can tell you from experience, the LAST place a UIC should want to be is placing themselves in the middle of a call that isn't theirs. If a problem develops, a UIC should move away from the field until called.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

and yes, if a defensive player 'brings' a blocked or dead ball back into play and the umpires have not seen or called the ball dead yet, the ball is still live. (saw this last year on the the HOF field last year at the 18u Gold nationals. and I go over this very thing at the pre game plate conferences with the coaches.

There is nothing whatsoever to cover about this in the pre-game conference. It is ridiculous that anyone covers it. Why not just enforce the rule should something occur? This is a standard book rule that does not need addressing. The odds are that when addressing it, you are saying something that is incorrect anyway.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

There is nothing whatsoever to cover about this in the pre-game conference. It is ridiculous that anyone covers it. Why not just enforce the rule should something occur? This is a standard book rule that does not need addressing. The odds are that when addressing it, you are saying something that is incorrect anyway.

Guess you have never called at HOF stadium in OKC. (or at UT in Austin) Because of the the 'press/TV' area on the first base line, it blocks the view of the PU's view of the tarp storage area. (even when trailing the B/R) it is unique, and with any unique ground rule, it should be covered. If the ballpark is totally tight, you might have a point, but that is rarely the case.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Guess you have never called at HOF stadium in OKC. (or at UT in Austin) Because of the the 'press/TV' area on the first base line, it blocks the view of the PU's view of the tape storage area. (even when trailing the B/R) it is unique, and with any unique ground rule, it should be covered. If the ballpark is totally tight, you might have a point, but that is rarely the case.

Yep, can vouch for that. HOF also has issues down the LF foul area when the whole field is in use.

[UmpireErnie]

Hey Alex..

I am guessing over there you are using ISF rules which I don't know but I believe they are pretty similar to ASA. Having said that..

If a ball gets stuck or is perhaps just barely into an out of play area the defense may put up their hands to let umpires know they think the ball should be dead. But a player raising his/her hands does not kill the play. As the umpire there is no need to kill the ball to go out and check if it should be dead.

On the other hand if prior to digging out the ball PU decided he could tell from his position that the ball was dead then 2B would be correct. Once he kills it it is a bell that really can't be unrung.

Have you talked to this UIC afterward to determine what the conference was about? Not to mention your partner?

[shagpal]

If HE as the BU chases, the PU job is now w/ the runners, and BU should stay with and declare ball status should it go into DBT or go unplayable.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

To start, YOU as the BU do NOT kill the play. That is the PU's job. Second, you always let the play finish, whether the defense has their arms in the air or not, they do not determine when play is stopped or over.

If the PU did kill the ball, shame on him, but this is the PU's call, not yours.

The UIC shouldn't have even been there unless needed to rule on a protest. I can tell you from experience, the LAST place a UIC should want to be is placing themselves in the middle of a call that isn't theirs. If a problem develops, a UIC should move away from the field until called.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

If HE as the BU chases, the PU job is now w/ the runners, and BU should stay with and declare ball status should it go into DBT or go unplayable.

The OP doesn't say the BU chased, just that the ball was brought back into play before he could check it.