Runner must slide rule

[chapmaja]

Ok, I had this discussion with a coach on Monday (away game), and Thursday (home game).

On Monday I had the following play. R1 has scored, R2 is coming home. F2, sees the throw is up the 3b line, and as such she steps into the path of R2, who stops right in front of F2 about 1 foot in front of the plate. She does not slide and attempts to reach her leg between the leg of F2. I call obstruction on F2 because she did not have the ball and impeded the progress of the runner coming home. There was some contacted between the two players when F2 tried reaching for the throw and R2 was reaching for the plate. The throw got by F2, which allowed B3 to advance from 2b to 3b.

The coach, after the inning finished, question why I called obstruction on F2, not interference on R2 because R2 did not slide. I informed her that no runner is ever required to slide, they just must avoid making significant contact with a fielder in possession of the ball attempting a play on the runner. I also said that in this case, the catcher committed inference because she was impeding the progress of R2, while not in possession of the ball.

The coach then told me that they have always been told that a runner must slide.

Later in the game, last play actually, I had a situation where B1 hit a double and was attempting to stretch the play to a triple. She came running towards 3b, and just after the throw arrived, slide late and as she went down sliding made significant contact with F5 who was coming towards her with the ball. Given we had 2 injured in a tag play at the play earlier in the game (nothing illegal, just two players attempting to occupy on place), I jumped the gun and called the runner out for making significant contact with the fielder, which caused the ball to bounce out of the glove and away from F5. I did not rule the contact malicious, it was just had contact as a result of a late, but not illegal slide.

After the game I looked the rule up and found I was wrong in calling her out. She did not slide illegally, and despite being sigificant contact during her late slide, she was not sliding illegally.

On Thursday, I admitted that I missed that call and the discussion again went to the slide rule. I pointed out to the coach the exact rule that covers sliding and it not being required (same rule I incorrectly applied in the play at the end of the game).

Where the heck did the you have to slide rule come from? She is not the only coach to say umpires have been telling her that. This was a HS JV game in an area that usually sees a mix of experienced and newer umpires. Does this go back to an old rule that required players to slide to avoid contact (which could actually lead to more injuries rather than less)?

[HugoTafurst]

If I remember correctly, Little League, Inc. has a rule that states that a runner must slide or attempt to a avoid a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make a tag.

People often refer to this as "must slide". (right or wrong)

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

If I remember correctly, Little League, Inc. has a rule that states that a runner must slide or attempt to a avoid a fielder who has the ball and is waiting to make a tag.

People often refer to this as "must slide". (right or wrong)

All rules require avoidance of collisions, but LL does or at least did have a "must slide" rule. Of course, that is where many coaches started there "diamond" careers.
The other part is that coaches teach players to slide to avoid tags & collisions; so then players think they must slide and that translates into a rule in their minds.
It's like the turn after overrunning 1st base. Players are taught to turn right to "avoid being out", that becomes a rule in their minds.
And others, usually actually believed as rules by the coaches who have never been umpires.

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

All rules require avoidance of collisions, but LL does or at least did have a "must slide" rule. Of course, that is where many coaches started there "diamond" careers.
The other part is that coaches teach players to slide to avoid tags & collisions; so then players think they must slide and that translates into a rule in their minds.
It's like the turn after overrunning 1st base. Players are taught to turn right to "avoid being out", that becomes a rule in their minds.
And others, usually actually believed as rules by the coaches who have never been umpires.

The last LL rules that I had seen specifically prohibits leagues from making a must slide rule. Last book I saw was 08. One of the few points I agreed on with LL.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The last LL rules that I had seen specifically prohibits leagues from making a must slide rule. Last book I saw was 08. One of the few points I agreed on with LL.

Think about it. How can LL prohibit anyone from enacting a rule locally? Not saying there should be such a rule, but what are they going to do? Yes, that is a question.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Think about it. How can LL prohibit anyone from enacting a rule locally? Not saying there should be such a rule, but what are they going to do? Yes, that is a question.

They could prohibit it if they think that there is a safety/liability issue that could become an insurance coverage problem. Simple as that.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

The last LL rules that I had seen specifically prohibits leagues from making a must slide rule. Last book I saw was 08. One of the few points I agreed on with LL.

Yeah, my LL experience is a long time ago, with my son who is now coaching is son and daughter.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

All rules require avoidance of collisions, but LL does or at least did have a "must slide" rule. Of course, that is where many coaches started there "diamond" careers.
The other part is that coaches teach players to slide to avoid tags & collisions; so then players think they must slide and that translates into a rule in their minds.
It's like the turn after overrunning 1st base. Players are taught to turn right to "avoid being out", that becomes a rule in their minds.
And others, usually actually believed as rules by the coaches who have never been umpires.

Not for the last 15 years, at least.

Rita

[falsecut]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

All rules require avoidance of collisions, but LL does or at least did have a "must slide" rule. Of course, that is where many coaches started there "diamond" careers.
The other part is that coaches teach players to slide to avoid tags & collisions; so then players think they must slide and that translates into a rule in their minds.
It's like the turn after overrunning 1st base. Players are taught to turn right to "avoid being out", that becomes a rule in their minds.
And others, usually actually believed as rules by the coaches who have never been umpires.

I've seen lots of tournaments and in-house leagues that have a must slide rule. I don't think it's hard to see where the idea comes from at all.

[UmpireErnie]

"Must slide" is quite a bit different than "Must slide OR avoid contact".

But I think people just hear or remembber the "must slide" part. And again it seems like only LL rule set and local league rule sets (which are often poorly written and left open to interpretation) use the actual words "must slide". Yet it has become one of those famous softball myths like "the hands are part of the bat".

It's a misconception backed up by the fact that in pro baseball it is a perfectly accepted part of the game to crash into a fielder who is holding the ball waiting to tag you where as in softball that will get you called out and probably earn you an early check out.

To put "must slide" in writing IMO is simply opening a litigation nightmare when little Sally breaks her leg sliding because the rules said she had to.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

After the game I looked the rule up and found I was wrong in calling her out. She did not slide illegally, and despite being sigificant contact during her late slide, she was not sliding illegally.

Define "sliding late". Simply leaving one's feet does not constitute a slide. IMO, even the NFHS definition is not specific enough.