Wind During IFF

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Had one this past weekend. I was BU in C, PU called IFF at the top of the relatively high fly. At the time IFF was called, I thought the ball would land just a few feet to my left, but by the time it came down it landed about 10 feet directly behind 2B, where ball hit ground just out of F6's reach, probably 10 feet away from where I thought it would land.

The wind was definitely a factor, but the wind is so unpredictable, I don't know how to account for it. Wind can start and stop on a dime. And it can go both ways making a fly ball harder - or easier to catch.

I am inclined not to consider the wind, except in some TWP.

And if F4 or F8 had been nearby where it descended; instead of F6, how would you have applied "ordinary effort"?

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And if F4 or F8 had been nearby where it descended; instead of F6, how would you have applied "ordinary effort"?

Not sure I understand your question. Actually in this case, both F8 and F4 ended up being nearby. But I apply "ordinary effort" prior to the catch/no catch being made, not with the benefit of hindsight. In my sitch, this looked like a very easy play at the top of the fly ball.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Not sure I understand your question. Actually in this case, both F8 and F4 ended up being nearby. But I apply "ordinary effort" prior to the catch/no catch being made, not with the benefit of hindsight. In my sitch, this looked like a very easy play at the top of the fly ball.

I was wondering the same thing, actually.

The rules says it applies when an infielder CAN make the play with ordinary effort ... not that an infielder DOES make the play. If F6 can make this play, but F8 can too ... we still have IFF.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I was wondering the same thing, actually.

The rules says it applies when an infielder can make the play with ordinary effort ... not that an infielder DOES make the play. If F6 can make this play, but F8 can too ... we still have IFF.

What it really says is when, in the umpire's judgment, an infielder can catch the fly ball with ordinary effort. The umpire's manual also states that this should be called at the ball's apex. So, if the ball goes up and, IMJ, an infielder can catch that ball with ordinary effort, I make the call, I don't wait for it to come. And, yes, the player's position and posture along with possible help from my partner will be taken into consideration, but again, I'm not waiting for it to come back to earth to make the call.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What it really says is when, in the umpire's judgment, an infielder can catch the fly ball with ordinary effort. The umpire's manual also states that this should be called at the ball's apex. So, if the ball goes up and, IMJ, an infielder can catch that ball with ordinary effort, I make the call, I don't wait for it to come. And, yes, the player's position and posture along with possible help from my partner will be taken into consideration, but again, I'm not waiting for it to come back to earth to make the call.

JMO, but I think the guidance in the umpire's manual on calling the IFF at the ball's apex is for "normal" circumstances. When you have anything extraordinary like significant weather conditions, I feel you really should wait and see. A lot can happen (as it did in my game) as the ball comes down. I cannot justify ruling IFF when the fielder can't get to the ball even if she dove for it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

JMO, but I think the guidance in the umpire's manual on calling the IFF at the ball's apex is for "normal" circumstances. When you have anything extraordinary like significant weather conditions, I feel you really should wait and see. A lot can happen (as it did in my game) as the ball comes down. I cannot justify ruling IFF when the fielder can't get to the ball even if she dove for it.

Well, that is your judgment, but be ready to have a talk with the coach when the ball lands at the feet of an infielder and they turn an easy deuce to get out of the inning.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, that is your judgment, but be ready to have a talk with the coach when the ball lands at the feet of an infielder and they turn an easy deuce to get out of the inning.

But we should call it after the apex if the ruling is unknown at the apex and becomes known on the way down. The other day, an infield fly was hit right into the sun, not called until half way down, because the trajectory into the sun hid whether it would be infield or outfield.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, that is your judgment, but be ready to have a talk with the coach when the ball lands at the feet of an infielder and they turn an easy deuce to get out of the inning.

IFF can be called after the fact, if necessary. The ruling doesn't change, just the timing of when the umpire calls it. It's still IFF. In your case above, there will not BE two outs on this play. If it were that simple, call it at the apex. If not, hold your call until you are sure that your ruling of IFF is correct.

Weather conditions only apply so long as it affects, in your judgment, "whether an infielder can catch a fly ball with ordinary effort with runners on first and second, or bases loaded with less than two out." Try not to read too much into it. If you, in your judgment, think it's ordinary effort, call. If not, no call. Sun, wind, rain, snowflakes, field lights...whatever.

For the record, not only does weather conditions play a role in this rule for me, but also age and level of the players.