Wind During IFF

[DUNDALKCHOPPER]

I consider wind.

[MD Longhorn]

The rulebook doesn't mention it, but it doesn't need to. You used the exact correct judgement - ordinary effort. And yes, that includes wind, ability and age of players, everything.

PS - a defensive coach asking for a free out on an IFF is NEVER going to get anywhere and this conversation's going to be short. The rule is not designed to give a defense an out they don't deserve --- it's designed to prevent a defense from letting one drop on purpose to get a double play... it's there to protect THE OFFENSE. No free out - never ever ever.

There's no chance a coach is going to argue to me that the rule, which is designed to stop a cheap double play, should be invoked on a play that they not only didn't get two outs... they didn't even get one.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

The rule is not designed to give a defense an out they don't deserve --- it's designed to prevent a defense from letting one drop on purpose to get a double play.

+1

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No free out - never ever ever.

In my view if strong winds are present, better to wait until you are SURE the fielder is comfortably camped underneath it. Make the defense play ball.

[EsqUmp]

I've heard this said in the past:

Wind is a factor, the sun is not. Thoughts?

[shipwreck]

My 2 cents worth is this. A fielder cannot control the wind. They can take some precautions for the sun though. Sunglasses, visor, cap, using their glove to shield the sun. I have never used the sun in someones eyes to not call IFF rule. Dave

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I have never used the sun in someones eyes to not call IFF rule. Dave

And per the NFHS casebook play I mentioned above, it's not appropriate anyway, so you're covered.

I just wanted to make sure wind is a factor. As I mentioned, that guidance is in writing in some of the baseball rulebooks and interpretations. I just don't recall seeing it in softball docs.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

My 2 cents worth is this. A fielder cannot control the wind. They can take some precautions for the sun though. Sunglasses, visor, cap, using their glove to shield the sun. I have never used the sun in someones eyes to not call IFF rule. Dave

I have. At least twice that still sticks in my memory. Both cases the ball was high and so was the sun. At the moment I'm trying to decide, the fielder(s) was shading their eyes and doing the "where did it go" routine. I did not call IFF in either case - it was not caught, and defense recorded no out.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I have. At least twice that still sticks in my memory. Both cases the ball was high and so was the sun. At the moment I'm trying to decide, the fielder(s) was shading their eyes and doing the "where did it go" routine. I did not call IFF in either case - it was not caught, and defense recorded no out.

From the NFHS case book:

"2.30 SITUATION B: R1 and R2 are on second and first bases, respectively, with no outs. B3 hits a high pop foul between home and first base with F3 losing sight of the ball because of the sun. The ball lands on foul ground without being touched and rolls into fair territory halfway between home and first base. F1 picks up the ball and throws to F4 covering first, who touches R2 with the ball while the latter is off base. RULING: Fair ball. Even though the infield fly was not called, it is still in effect. B3, therefore, is out. R2 is also out. (8-2-9)."

So, even though a caseplay tells us to rule IFF even if the fielder loses it in the sun, you're not going to? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I've heard this said in the past:

Wind is a factor, the sun is not. Thoughts?

It's all a factor... the ONLY thing that matters is whether the umpire feels the fielder would be able to make the play with ordinary effort. Not sure why anyone would want to specifically exclude anything at all or differentiate between one factor's validity and another. Whoever told you this is inventing things for no reason..

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I've heard this said in the past:

Wind is a factor, the sun is not. Thoughts?

The sun's location and effect is known and predictable, the effect of the wind (as in this case) was not.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

The sun's location and effect is known and predictable, the effect of the wind (as in this case) was not.

That may be true. But why would the truth of that have anything to do with whether a ball is catchable with ordinary effort? If the location of the sun and the ball are such that the ball is not going to be easy to catch, why would you not take that into account?

The only difference between sun and wind is that you, the umpire, knew in advance that the sun might be an issue, whereas the wind probably took you, the umpire, by surprise. But that shouldn't change our decision making process.

[tcannizzo]

Had one this past weekend. I was BU in C, PU called IFF at the top of the relatively high fly. At the time IFF was called, I thought the ball would land just a few feet to my left, but by the time it came down it landed about 10 feet directly behind 2B, where ball hit ground just out of F6's reach, probably 10 feet away from where I thought it would land.

The wind was definitely a factor, but the wind is so unpredictable, I don't know how to account for it. Wind can start and stop on a dime. And it can go both ways making a fly ball harder - or easier to catch.

I am inclined not to consider the wind, except in some TWP.