Wind During IFF

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I was wondering the same thing, actually.

The rules says it applies when an infielder can make the play with ordinary effort ... not that an infielder DOES make the play. If F6 can make this play, but F8 can too ... we still have IFF.

What it really says is when, in the umpire's judgment, an infielder can catch the fly ball with ordinary effort. The umpire's manual also states that this should be called at the ball's apex. So, if the ball goes up and, IMJ, an infielder can catch that ball with ordinary effort, I make the call, I don't wait for it to come. And, yes, the player's position and posture along with possible help from my partner will be taken into consideration, but again, I'm not waiting for it to come back to earth to make the call.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I have. At least twice that still sticks in my memory. Both cases the ball was high and so was the sun. At the moment I'm trying to decide, the fielder(s) was shading their eyes and doing the "where did it go" routine. I did not call IFF in either case - it was not caught, and defense recorded no out.

From the NFHS case book:

"2.30 SITUATION B: R1 and R2 are on second and first bases, respectively, with no outs. B3 hits a high pop foul between home and first base with F3 losing sight of the ball because of the sun. The ball lands on foul ground without being touched and rolls into fair territory halfway between home and first base. F1 picks up the ball and throws to F4 covering first, who touches R2 with the ball while the latter is off base. RULING: Fair ball. Even though the infield fly was not called, it is still in effect. B3, therefore, is out. R2 is also out. (8-2-9)."

So, even though a caseplay tells us to rule IFF even if the fielder loses it in the sun, you're not going to? Or am I misunderstanding your point?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

What it really says is when, in the umpire's judgment, an infielder can catch the fly ball with ordinary effort. The umpire's manual also states that this should be called at the ball's apex. So, if the ball goes up and, IMJ, an infielder can catch that ball with ordinary effort, I make the call, I don't wait for it to come. And, yes, the player's position and posture along with possible help from my partner will be taken into consideration, but again, I'm not waiting for it to come back to earth to make the call.

JMO, but I think the guidance in the umpire's manual on calling the IFF at the ball's apex is for "normal" circumstances. When you have anything extraordinary like significant weather conditions, I feel you really should wait and see. A lot can happen (as it did in my game) as the ball comes down. I cannot justify ruling IFF when the fielder can't get to the ball even if she dove for it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

JMO, but I think the guidance in the umpire's manual on calling the IFF at the ball's apex is for "normal" circumstances. When you have anything extraordinary like significant weather conditions, I feel you really should wait and see. A lot can happen (as it did in my game) as the ball comes down. I cannot justify ruling IFF when the fielder can't get to the ball even if she dove for it.

Well, that is your judgment, but be ready to have a talk with the coach when the ball lands at the feet of an infielder and they turn an easy deuce to get out of the inning.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, that is your judgment, but be ready to have a talk with the coach when the ball lands at the feet of an infielder and they turn an easy deuce to get out of the inning.

But we should call it after the apex if the ruling is unknown at the apex and becomes known on the way down. The other day, an infield fly was hit right into the sun, not called until half way down, because the trajectory into the sun hid whether it would be infield or outfield.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

But we should call it after the apex if the ruling is unknown at the apex and becomes known on the way down. The other day, an infield fly was hit right into the sun, not called until half way down, because the trajectory into the sun hid whether it would be infield or outfield.

You call it when you call it. If you can at the apex, you call it at the apex. Personally, I'm probably glancing at my partner for any possible input as s/he obviously has a better take on the location of the ball, but even then how far it travels has no bearing on the rule.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Well, that is your judgment, but be ready to have a talk with the coach when the ball lands at the feet of an infielder and they turn an easy deuce to get out of the inning.

IFF can be called after the fact, if necessary. The ruling doesn't change, just the timing of when the umpire calls it. It's still IFF. In your case above, there will not BE two outs on this play. If it were that simple, call it at the apex. If not, hold your call until you are sure that your ruling of IFF is correct.

Weather conditions only apply so long as it affects, in your judgment, "whether an infielder can catch a fly ball with ordinary effort with runners on first and second, or bases loaded with less than two out." Try not to read too much into it. If you, in your judgment, think it's ordinary effort, call. If not, no call. Sun, wind, rain, snowflakes, field lights...whatever.

For the record, not only does weather conditions play a role in this rule for me, but also age and level of the players.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

IFF can be called after the fact, if necessary. The ruling doesn't change, just the timing of when the umpire calls it. It's still IFF. In your case above, there will not BE two outs on this play. If it were that simple, call it at the apex. If not, hold your call until you are sure that your ruling of IFF is correct.

Yeah, I know that. But that should be the exception, not a practice.

Weather conditions only apply so long as it affects, in your judgment, "whether an infielder can catch a fly ball with ordinary effort with runners on first and second, or bases loaded with less than two out." Try not to read too much into it. If you, in your judgment, think it's ordinary effort, call. If not, no call. Sun, wind, rain, snowflakes, field lights...whatever.

For the record, not only does weather conditions play a role in this rule for me, but also age and level of the players.

For the record, I don't worry about it. I base my judgment solely on the players and whether I believe they are able to catch the ball with ordinary effort.

[jmkupka]

FWIW, a windless day with the sun behind the clouds is a "weather condition" that affects to the ability to catch with ordinary effort.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

FWIW, a windless day with the sun behind the clouds is a "weather condition" that affects to the ability to catch with ordinary effort.

[jmkupka]

In a positive way, I mean. My point being, I agree that adverse conditions are considerations in deciding ordinary effort.