Retouch home after leaving field

[DUNDALKCHOPPER]

ASA- Is it legal to retouch home after leaving the field. If no, how should Ump handle. Let it happen and see if defense appeals it, or call runner out as soon as she reenters the field ?

[RKBUmp]

Once past a base, the runner is assumed to have touched it until properly appealed. If the defense doesnt make the appeal, then there is nothing to rule on. If they do leave the field, reenter and touch the plate, the retouch is invalid and they may still be appealed for having missed the base by the defense.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by DUNDALKCHOPPER

ASA- Is it legal to retouch home after leaving the field. If no, how should Ump handle. Let it happen and see if defense appeals it, or call runner out as soon as she reenters the field ?

It's not illegal. It doesn't mean anything, but it's not illegal. (As an aside, even if retouching were somehow illegal ... why would you call a scored runner out for reentering the field - maybe she's coming to get her bat ... or coach a base)

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's not illegal. It doesn't mean anything, but it's not illegal. (As an aside, even if retouching were somehow illegal ... why would you call a scored runner out for reentering the field - maybe she's coming to get her bat ... or coach a base)

Yes it is illegal in the OP. Once you enter the Dugout area (leave the field of play) you may not go back and retouch a missed base including home plate. after the play is completed she may re-enter to pick up the bat or to go coach but once she entered the dugout during live ball play she can not return until the ball is dead. you could rule interference 8-7-p

[BretMan]

Usually, if an act is "illegal" then there's some sort of penalty associated with it.

Maybe a better word for a scored runner coming back on the field to re-touch a missed base would be "moot".

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

You could rule interference

Only if she actually interfered with a play, an attempt by the defense to retire another active runner. I hope that you wouldn't rule interference jjust because the player re-entered the field.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Usually, if an act is "illegal" then there's some sort of penalty associated with it.

Maybe a better word for a scored runner coming back on the field to re-touch a missed base would be "moot".



Only if she actually interfered with a play, an attempt by the defense to retire another active runner. I hope that you wouldn't rule interference jjust because the player re-entered the field.

no but if by coming out to retouch a base confuses any defensive player I have interference per the rules (8-7-p)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

no but if by coming out to retouch a base confuses any defensive player I have interference per the rules (8-6-p)

I think that's an extreme overreach. As is your use of the word Illegal. Her leaving the dugout to touch home does her as much good as coming out to get a bat or high five the next runner - it's a waste of time. But "illegal"? I think not.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

no but if by coming out to retouch a base confuses any defensive player I have interference per the rules (8-6-p)

I hope you're not one of those umpires who goes out of his/her way to find rule violations for even the most minor of on-field incidents. I honestly don't see how a runner who has just entered the dugout and then comes out to touch home plate would confuse anybody. It would be a real stretch to make an interference call here.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

no but if by coming out to retouch a base confuses any defensive player I have interference per the rules (8-6-p)

I don't think so. What would confuse the player? EVERYONE knows you cannot come out of DBT and be engaged in the game, so where would there be any confusion?

Now, if the player entered the field and started running in the vicinity of the 3rd base line, that I could buy as INT. But it would still take something to convince me that player's presence interfered with the defense.

[BretMan]

Way to change your original premise. Here's what you first wrote:

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Yes it is illegal in the OP. Once you enter the Dugout area (leave the field of play) you may not go back and retouch a missed base including home plate. after the play is completed she may re-enter to pick up the bat or to go coach but once she entered the dugout during live ball play she can not return until the ball is dead. you could rule interference 8-7-p

Nothing about drawing a throw or letting another runner advance. I don't think that anyone said this could never be interference, rather that the player would have to actually interfere with something before it was.

I don't care if your initials are KR, I think that using 8-7-N to classify this player as "bench personnel" is pretty sketchy. There's nothing in that rule that addresses the status of the player as being "bench personnel".

What if...bases are loaded. Ball is hit, three runners score. Before leaving the field, the three runners all circle third base to make the play on the batter-runner harder for the defense.

By the logic offered, these three scored runners would all be considered as bench personnel. But your point was that they had to enter the dugout first, then come back out. It just isn't consistent. And, like the retouch of home in the first post, it's probably moot.

Why not just call this player a "retired/scored runner". The penalty is the same if she interfers- runner closest to home is out.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Why not just call this player a "retired/scored runner". The penalty is the same if she interfers- runner closest to home is out.

I did earlier

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

No I do not I am just the opposite I try to stop the problems before they happen. I work a lot of high caliber ball.

But like I said if in coming back after leaving the field the Defense makes a play on the retired - scored runner you could and should have interference because the player has no right to re enter the field during this play as she is now bench personnel.

Now if she never left the field of play she has every right to go back and properly touch the base. or to retrieve a bat as someone else said.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

I did earlier (call this player a retired/scored runner).

Then why spend four more pages arguing that she is "bench personnel"?

And why pull out a rule that makes no mention or definition of "bench personnel" as your "proof" that this player is bench personnel?

Why not just use the rule about interference by a retired/scored runner?

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Way to change your original premise. Here's what you first wrote:

Originally Posted by Insane Blue View Post
Yes it is illegal in the OP. Once you enter the Dugout area (leave the field of play) you may not go back and retouch a missed base including home plate. after the play is completed she may re-enter to pick up the bat or to go coach but once she entered the dugout during live ball play she can not return until the ball is dead. you could rule interference 8-7-p

This was in answer to

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

It's not illegal. It doesn't mean anything, but it's not illegal. (As an aside, even if retouching were somehow illegal ... why would you call a scored runner out for reentering the field - maybe she's coming to get her bat ... or coach a base)

And my rule reference is the same as K.R.

[Insane Blue]

Since this started as an ASA question I E-mailed Kevin Ryan for some feed back. I asked from my point of view from our on going arguments.

Hi Kevin, Having some discussions on a message Board and would like some input.

Basically we are having a discussion on a runner missing home plate (Assumed to have touched when passed) enters the dugout and is told by teammates that they missed home plate. The runner runs out of the dugout and draws a throw allowing another runner to advance.

I ruled that this action causes interference as the runner entered the dugout and becomes bench personnel and has no right to reenter the field.

Everyone has a problem with my ruling as they say the runner is not bench personnel just because they entered the dugout.

What is your take and can you give me some rule references.

Here is Kevin's reply


I believe you are right in this situation for the following reasons: Rule 8, Section 3G, Rule 8 Section 7P and Rule 8, Section 7N

Rule 8, Section 3G
No runner may return to touch a base missed or one left too soon after a trailing runner has scored or once they leave live ball territory.

Rule 8 Section 7P
When, after being declared out or after scoring, an offensive player interferes with a defensive player’s opportunity to make a play on another runner. EFFECT: The ball is dead. The runner closest to home plate at the time of the interference is out. All runners not out must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

The fact that they drew a throw allowed a runner who would not have advanced to advance to 3B. The Effect would be to declare the runner closest to home out.

Rule 8, Section 7N
If someone comes out of the dugout and interferes....

When member(s) of the offensive team stand or collect around a base to which a runner is advancing, confusing the fielders and adding to the difficulty of making the play.
EFFECT: The ball is dead. The runner closest to home is out. Runners not out must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference.

Hope this helps.

Kevin Ryan
ASA Supervisor of Umpires