Retouch home after leaving field

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

What in my statement is inaccurate?

I'm trying to find a rule or any citation whatsoever that converts a runner who has scored into something else the instant a toe touches dugout. I can't find such a thing. You seem to think she does, so I'll ask you to find the cite.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm trying to find a rule or any citation whatsoever that converts a runner who has scored into something else the instant a toe touches dugout. I can't find such a thing. You seem to think she does, so I'll ask you to find the cite.

For Federation look up definition of a retired runner.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Why yell? You can make your point without engaging the Caps Lock button.

Are you suggesting that a retired runner becomes someone else when she enters the dugout? Is there a rule cite for that?

The rules are clear that a retired (or scored) runner cannot enter the dugout, and then come back out to correct base running mistakes. But I've never seen anything that says once she enters the dugout, she can no longer come back out to do other things like direct a teammate to slide at home.

Seriously (and without shouting), is there something that says her status as a retired (or scored) runner changes the moment she steps into DBT?

Yes Rule 3-6-6 covers who may be outside of the dugout and for what reasons. When the Retired Runner enters the dugout she becomes bench personal and is governed by this rule.

Are you telling us that a bench player other than the on deck player can leave the dugout to tell a player to slide during a live ball.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

For Federation look up definition of a retired runner.

That definition does not state that her status changes once she enters DBT. If she is put out or scores, enters the dugout, and then returns onto the field, she still meets the Fed definition.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

For Federation look up definition of a retired runner.

I did before replying to esq. I just read it again. Can you let us know exactly what part of that says or even implies that the retired runner's status changes when toe touches dugout? Even if I put myself in the mindset that I WANT it to say that, I cannot get it to say that.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Yes Rule 3-6-6 covers who may be outside of the dugout and for what reasons. When the Retired Runner enters the dugout she becomes bench personal and is governed by this rule.

I don't read it that way.

Are you telling us that a bench player other than the on deck player can leave the dugout to tell a player to slide during a live ball.

Don't be that guy that argues with things the other person didn't say. No one said this, or implied it.

That said - even if some bench player DID leave the dugout to do this, an out for interference would not be the automatic remedy (assuming, of course, they didn't actually interfere).

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I did before replying to esq. I just read it again. Can you let us know exactly what part of that says or even implies that the retired runner's status changes when toe touches dugout? Even if I put myself in the mindset that I WANT it to say that, I cannot get it to say that.

Can you tell me where a player who is in the dugout can be anything other than a player in the dugout???

A retired runner is just that a retired runner Bench personnel is just that bench personnel. once the player left the playing field she is bench personnel.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Can you tell me where a player who is in the dugout can be anything other than a player in the dugout???

A retired runner is just that a retired runner Bench personnel is just that bench personnel. once the player left the playing field she is bench personnel.

Ah. Sorry. Forgot you were the same one I gave up on earlier for this sort of logic. Don't bother actually answering the question given to you ... just rephrase your previous response.

Answer the question you were actually asked ... or don't. I've stopped caring now. Some people argue to get to a correct answer, so we can be better umpires. Others argue simply to win the argument ... or change the argument until you can win. This serves no purpose, and I have no further interest in entertaining you.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by Manny A

But I've never seen anything that says once she enters the dugout, she can no longer come back out to do other things like direct a teammate to slide at home.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Don't be that guy that argues with things the other person didn't say. No one said this, or implied it.

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Are you telling us that a bench player other than the on deck player can leave the dugout to tell a player to slide during a live ball.

Did I miss read him??? He is allowing someone to enter the field to coach the runner going to home.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

That said - even if some bench player DID leave the dugout to do this, an out for interference would not be the automatic remedy (assuming, of course, they didn't actually interfere).

Agreed

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Ah. Sorry. Forgot you were the same one I gave up on earlier for this sort of logic. Don't bother actually answering the question given to you ... just rephrase your previous response.

Answer the question you were actually asked ... or don't. I've stopped caring now. Some people argue to get to a correct answer, so we can be better umpires. Others argue simply to win the argument ... or change the argument until you can win. This serves no purpose, and I have no further interest in entertaining you.

I did answer your question Once the player left the playing field she is bench personnel. And as such is restricted to what bench personnel is allowed to do.

It seems more like you do not want to hear an answer that is contrary to your beliefs.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

I did answer your question Once the player left the playing field she is bench personnel.

No. That was not the question. That was a repeat of your (and esq's) statement. The question was - why do you think this? Based on what rule does the retired or scored runner change into bench personnel the instant a toe touches dugout? You keep trying to apply bench personnel rules to a player that was involved in this play and is not bench personnel. Saying again that she is bench personnel doesn't make it so. Why do you think it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Did I miss read him??? He is allowing someone to enter the field to coach the runner going to home.

Yes, you did. This hinges on the unanswered question. A regular bench player is one thing. The scored runner is something different. He (and I) are saying that the scored runner is NOT "bench personnel" --- so no, he (and I) are not saying bench personnel can come out and coach... we're saying the scored runner (who is not bench personnel) can.

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No. That was not the question. That was a repeat of your (and esq's) statement. The question was - why do you think this? Based on what rule does the retired or scored runner change into bench personnel the instant a toe touches dugout? You keep trying to apply bench personnel rules to a player that was involved in this play and is not bench personnel. Saying again that she is bench personnel doesn't make it so. Why do you think it.

I think this because she has left the field of play when she entered the dugout. and no not just cause her toe is is in.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

I think this because she has left the field of play when she entered the dugout. and no not just cause her toe is is in.

This position to me makes even less sense. Generally, a runner who steps in DBT can no longer return to retouch (not if she is still partially in live ball territory but once she enters DBT). Saying that you now determine that to become bench personnel she must fully exit the field seems even further afield, but Mike's question remains: what makes you say that a runner who has scored and enters the dugout becomes bench personnel?

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by youngump

This position to me makes even less sense. Generally, a runner who steps in DBT can no longer return to retouch (not if she is still partially in live ball territory but once she enters DBT). Saying that you now determine that to become bench personnel she must fully exit the field seems even further afield, but Mike's question remains: what makes you say that a runner who has scored and enters the dugout becomes bench personnel?

I have answered this numerous times but again by leaving the field of play and entering the dugout is why I say she is bench personnel. What else would she be???