Umpire runs into base runner

[Tex]

NFHS
The base umpire runs into the base runner going from 2nd base to 3rd base, while trying to get into proper position during a base hit to the outfield. The base runner was knocked down unto the ground and was close to being tagged out. The base umpire kills the play and awards the base runner the base she was going to (3rd base), and the batter runner 1st base. Neither team complained.

I thought this was the propper call, but can't find any rule to support this. Any help?

[3afan]

that is not a dead ball, you let the play finish, then take your medicine from the offensive coach.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tex

NFHS
The base umpire runs into the base runner going from 2nd base to 3rd base, while trying to get into proper position during a base hit to the outfield. The base runner was knocked down unto the ground and was close to being tagged out. The base umpire kills the play and awards the base runner the base she was going to (3rd base), and the batter runner 1st base. Neither team complained.

I thought this was the propper call, but can't find any rule to support this. Any help?

Umpires can remedy problems we cause; but I don't see the reason for the BR award.

[tcannizzo]

There is no rule to support this. The only umpire INT is PU who may hinder F2. Aside from that, this is a too sad too bad situation. No call, no awards.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Umpires can remedy problems we cause.

Unfortunately, no we can't.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Umpires can remedy problems we cause; but I don't see the reason for the BR award.

Be careful, CO. You may be thinking of NFHS 10-2-3m, which says the plate umpire may rectify any reversed umpire decisions that put a team in jeopardy.

This was not an umpire decision. This was an umpire whose ineptness put a runner at risk. This cannot be fixed. If the runner had been tagged out, then the out stands.

It's no different than a base umpire getting hit with a throw from the outfield that causes runners to run additional bases. Oops, sorry, but all play stands. You cannot stop the runners from taking advantage of it.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Unfortunately, no we can't.

What about 10-2-3-m?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Be careful, CO. You may be thinking of NFHS 10-2-3m, which says the plate umpire may rectify any reversed umpire decisions that put a team in jeopardy.

This was not an umpire decision. This was an umpire whose ineptness put a runner at risk. This cannot be fixed. If the runner had been tagged out, then the out stands.

It's no different than a base umpire getting hit with a throw from the outfield that causes runners to run additional bases. Oops, sorry, but all play stands. You cannot stop the runners from taking advantage of it.

Yes, I was stretching that rule a lot, adding a bit of 10-2-3-g, but my main point was about that not applyiing to the BR.


Someday, we can discuss whether an umpire runnng into a player (action of an umpire) is different than a throw (action of a player); in applying any connotation of "decision".

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What about 10-2-3-m?

Sure, if an umpire makes an incorrect call or decision on the field and that incorrect call puts the offense or defense in jeopardy, we are required to rectify it. That rule has NOTHING to do with an umpire getting in the way of a runner or even a throw.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Someday, we can discuss whether an umpire runnng into a player (action of an umpire) is different than a throw (action of a player); in applying any connotation of "decision".

I don't see how it would be different. No rule covers either situation (and I wouldn't use 10-2-3g in either case), and I don't agree that the umpire getting in the way of a throw is solely due to player action. It's still the umpire's fault by placing himself/herself in the path of the throw.

I don't know about softball. But the 10-2-3g equivalent in baseball is limited for use when a rule doesn't cover a unique situation. For example, a batted ball gets stuck in a plastic cup that fell onto the field, or a pitch hits a bird in flight (those happened in MLB games). It is not to be used when an umpire gets in the way of the players.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I don't see how it would be different. No rule covers either situation (and I wouldn't use 10-2-3g in either case), and I don't agree that the umpire getting in the way of a throw is solely due to player action. It's still the umpire's fault by placing himself/herself in the path of the throw.

I don't know about softball. But the 10-2-3g equivalent in baseball is limited for use when a rule doesn't cover a unique situation. For example, a batted ball gets stuck in a plastic cup that fell onto the field, or a pitch hits a bird in flight (those happened in MLB games). It is not to be used when an umpire gets in the way of the players.

Umpire interference is defined; it exists, there are rules that apply, it has specific and extremely limited applications.

The clear, obvious, and distinct implication is that nothing else during live play is umpire interference, correctable, or even something that needs to be acknowledged.

[IRISHMAFIA]

C'mon, somebodies got to say it. So, we will leave it up to the anal guy.

An umpire should never, ever be in a situation where a runner is going to run into them. If the umpire is, s/he is way out of position.

Unfortunately, for the offense, there is nothing that can be done about it within the rules of the game. The umpire screwed up and, as previously noted, needs to stand humbly in front of the coach and take a deserved, but not abusive, tongue lashing.

[EsqUmp]

Sounds like an umpire who doesn't want to pause-read-react. Where was the ball hit and where was he going?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Umpire interference is defined; it exists, there are rules that apply, it has specific and extremely limited applications.

The clear, obvious, and distinct implication is that nothing else during live play is umpire interference, correctable, or even something that needs to be acknowledged.

I'm 100% in agreement.

But to be accurate, what we're talking about here is umpire obstruction. And, unlike umpire interference which is a recognized and defined concept in all softball (and baseball) rule sets, there is no such thing as umpire obstruction. And I was merely pointing out that we can't use 10-2-3g to create a ruling for it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

C'mon, somebodies got to say it. So, we will leave it up to the anal guy.

An umpire should never, ever be in a situation where a runner is going to run into them. If the umpire is, s/he is way out of position.

Unfortunately, for the offense, there is nothing that can be done about it within the rules of the game. The umpire screwed up and, as previously noted, needs to stand humbly in front of the coach and take a deserved, but not abusive, tongue lashing.

I agree 100%, but will admit to the peanut gallery that this happened to me.

My 4th or 5th year - some 16 odd years ago. R1 on 2nd, 1 out. R1 has been taking generous leads, and BR is quick. BR squares to bunt and hits it right on the 3rd base line, about 15 feet, but in the air. I read the play and see (in my mind) F5 barehanding and firing to first. I move forward to get behind the pitcher for my call at first base... and freaking F5 lays out like Jerry Rice and catches the ball. At the moment it happens, I'm directly in the baseline behind R1 who recovers at the same time as me. I initially think I should simply continue and I'll be out of her way in a step or two, then turn for the play at 2nd. R1, for whatever reason, turns around toward her left and runs right at me (instead of 2nd base) and we collide.

I took a crapload from the coach when she was thrown out by inches. Deservedly so. I learned a lot that day, and it's never even come close to happening again.