fan too close to the bench?

[Little Jimmy]

Womens fastpitch. ASA rules. Both coaches at pre-game told that we weren't going to be spending all evening arguing balls and strikes ( one coach notorious for complaing about anything).

Game was going along quite smoothly until the 6th inning. Pitcher starts loosing the corner of the plate, hitting a couple of inches off instead of catching it as she had done throughout the evening. She starts being unhappy( eye rolls and head shakes) and the bench starts going along for the ride with the normal comments of their own. I ignore this until someone from the bench area says loudly " where could that one have been?". I turn and ask "does someone have a question?". At this point a fan who is outside the fence but standing 1 foot away from the dugout and the coach says "just take care of the game, I can say anything I want to." I responded " no, you actually can't" and the fan gives a wave of his backhand. I think it's a no win situation so I return to the game and finish the inning.

Next inning the same type of situation occurs again with a loud " Oh my God, I can't believe it" comming from the bench area. I look over and once again the same fan is in the same place doing the same thing. I call time and tell the coach that I can't tell if it's the bench or the fan that's complaining and the game won't continue until the fan moves away from the bench. Fan laughs, says he"ll "move down so he can see really bad I am " and the game continues. The next pitch ends the game.

I guess my question is did I have a leg to stand on when I told the fan to move? I know I probably got myself a heckler for life but I had to be sure where the comments were comming from before any coach or player was tossed. UIC was at the game and said he would just ignore everything from everybody. What's your opinion?

[SC Ump]

If I can't tell if it's coming from a fan or a coach, then I definitely ignore it.

Case in point, a coach after a half swing in a big high school game last year: "Ask if she went!!! Ask is she went!!!" Not sure who was yelling, I ignored him. I did this mostly out of habit. I did not even think about looking toward the dugout. Neither the catcher nor the pitcher requested this of me. I just stood there. After a few more yells and after the pitcher got in position but then moved off when the same voice yelled for her to step off, I realized what might be happening. I asked the catcher if that was her coach asking me to check, and when she said it was, I then checked.

Perhaps you might not want to go quite that far, but you asked the opinions of others and that is how I do it. If I'm not sure it's griping from the dugout, I pay no attention. If I'm sure it's griping from the dugout, I usually try to ignore it anyway.

[CecilOne]

About "I turn and ask "does someone have a question?". At this point a fan who is outside the fence but standing 1 foot away from the dugout and the coach says "just take care of the game, I can say anything I want to." I responded " no, you actually can't" and the fan gives a wave of his backhand. "

Starting the discussion is asking for trouble. You were right about "a no win situation", so leave it alone next time. Only deal with the bench or fans if someone says something truly insulting or offensive. Then inform the coach that whoever it was needs to be removed.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Little Jimmy
Womens fastpitch. ASA rules. Both coaches at pre-game told that we weren't going to be spending all evening arguing balls and strikes ( one coach notorious for complaing about anything).

Game was going along quite smoothly until the 6th inning. Pitcher starts loosing the corner of the plate, hitting a couple of inches off instead of catching it as she had done throughout the evening. She starts being unhappy( eye rolls and head shakes) and the bench starts going along for the ride with the normal comments of their own. I ignore this until someone from the bench area says loudly " where could that one have been?". I turn and ask "does someone have a question?". At this point a fan who is outside the fence but standing 1 foot away from the dugout and the coach says "just take care of the game, I can say anything I want to." I responded " no, you actually can't" and the fan gives a wave of his backhand. I think it's a no win situation so I return to the game and finish the inning.

Next inning the same type of situation occurs again with a loud " Oh my God, I can't believe it" comming from the bench area. I look over and once again the same fan is in the same place doing the same thing. I call time and tell the coach that I can't tell if it's the bench or the fan that's complaining and the game won't continue until the fan moves away from the bench. Fan laughs, says he"ll "move down so he can see really bad I am " and the game continues. The next pitch ends the game.

I guess my question is did I have a leg to stand on when I told the fan to move? I know I probably got myself a heckler for life but I had to be sure where the comments were comming from before any coach or player was tossed. UIC was at the game and said he would just ignore everything from everybody. What's your opinion?

Well, you could have asked a fans from the opposing side if any of them had a camera and if they could take a picture of that fan. When asked why you did that, you just tell the fan that you don't want to inconvenience the police with the need of requesting dental records.

Okay, kidding aside, ignore it unless the teams pick-up on it. Then you just stop the game until the coaches alleviate the problem.

There are a few umpires, though I'm not one of them and do not support such action, that would made a few FYCs and stared intently at the coach associated with that fan after each pitch. If s/he has any intelligence at all, s/he will take control of that fan.

[greymule]

I've seen umpires eject fans from the park in both SP and FP, sometimes for what I thought were routine comments ("give our pitcher that one, too" "runner's leaving too soon, Blue," "looked good from here").

I pretend I'm in the big leagues and ignore the fans entirely. (Obscenity at a youth game would cross the line, however.)

In the youth leagues around here, everybody is hyper-conscious of sportsmanship. At a Legion baseball game the other night, I noticed signs that warned against air horns, bad language, derogatory comments toward players/coaches/officials, drinking, etc., with the threat of ejection from the park and possibly civil action. Some softball fields post similar warnings.

Last week I posted comments about a coach who was out of control in a normally just-for-fun business league coed game. Someone at his company has since informed me that the guy got off work at 3 p.m. that day and spent the next 2½ hours in a bar before showing up at the field to "coach" the team.

[bluezebra]

"I asked the catcher if that was her coach asking me to check, and when she said it was, I then checked."

If the catcher doesn't ask, ignore anything from the bench.

Bob

[Little Jimmy]

24 hours later...

Greymule said " I pretend that I'm in the big leagues and ignore the fans entirely." I like how that was phrased. Lord knows that the coaches and players in the womens' league pretend they're in the big league all night long.

As I continue to hone my skills and "move up the ladder" (if you will) I have to remember where I'm at on any given night. This wasn't the local 9-10 girls, the 14 under ASA qualifier or the match-up between the two high school powerhouses. These were skilled adults who were playing tough ball just for the love of the game. Do I think they take themselves way too seriously? Absolutely. But different levels require different approaches and the reality is, I'm still learning. After 5 serious years of umping the truth is I'm still a pup ( and I thought I was an old dog).

I'll try it again tomorrow.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Sometimes you just have to laugh with them. Definitely don't try to defend your calls to any fan... or even any coach (playing the part of an obnoxious fan). Maintain your integrity all the time but also be personable.

Working a game yesterday. Returning to the plate from 3rd base. Some fan/guy with his fingers in the back stop says "About time I see a little hustle out of you Blue!" First game of the day for me and first inning. I very easily could have taken offense at such a stupid comment... and made my own stupid comment in retaliation... and the fight would have begun in earnest.

I laughed and responded "YES! (Agreeing with a heckler has an incredible pacifying affect.) Occasionally I have to hustle but usually in this kind of heat, I'm limited to about three steps of hustle before I need a rest." I laughed and walked to the plate. He laughed and the next half inning he's setting on the bench. He's one of the coaches!

A subtle change in my attitude and a personable response allowed us to have a great game. If I had retaliated or tried to defend myself by saying that this was my first game of the day and the first time I really needed to hustle... not only would it still be 104 degrees and blaring sun but I would have had an opponent/nemesis for every call I made for the entire game.

Keep your integrity (your calls are yours and they are not to be negotiated or questioned by any fan or coach... so don't even begin any kind of a discussion that could lead to confrontation. Only defend your calls when you are specifically asked in a professional manner and there could possibly be some confusion - and then don't allow/do that very often (a couple times per game is plenty, if not too much). Always keep a personable, approachable attitude. Talk with the players and compliment them for a job well done. Be respectful of the coaches and the job they do.

If you are an umpire in amature leagues for the money you are fighting a loosing battle. Have fun and do a great job so that your time is enjoyable and you have pride in the work you have accomplished when the game is done.

I've many situations to the contrary... it is not always easy to be positive and personable.

[blueskysblue]

If he was a coach, whatever was he doing behind the screen? Almost all types of baseball / softball have written rules about team members being in the stands during the game.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

He was ten feet from the dugout and was likely returning from the concession stand. Wasn't in position and didn't appear to be watching pitches.