Trivia 4

[MD Longhorn]

I confess I'm not positive about my ruling. The intervening play throws me.

Pick your rule code, and assume that you, the umpire, are positive of the following:

Bases loaded, no outs. After an offensive conference, the runners return to their bases -- except the base runners from 1st and 2nd switch places. This is not caught by an umpire at this point. The runner from 3rd scores on a sac fly and then the defense appeals switching bases at 1st and 2nd. What's the call?

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I confess I'm not positive about my ruling. The intervening play throws me.

Pick your rule code, and assume that you, the umpire, are positive of the following:

Bases loaded, no outs. After an offensive conference, the runners return to their bases -- except the base runners from 1st and 2nd switch places. This is not caught by an umpire at this point. The runner from 3rd scores on a sac fly and then the defense appeals switching bases at 1st and 2nd. What's the call?

What age?

If 12U or above I would eject the 3BC for unsportsmanlike conduct. Put the runners on the correct base and go on. The HC, if he/she is not already gone, will have a VERY short leash if they object.
If younger than 12, put the runners on the correct base and tell the HC not to let it happen again.

In either case, if the runner(s) advanced on the sac fly, I would put the runner(s) back to the TOP base.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I confess I'm not positive about my ruling. The intervening play throws me.

Pick your rule code, and assume that you, the umpire, are positive of the following:

Bases loaded, no outs. After an offensive conference, the runners return to their bases -- except the base runners from 1st and 2nd switch places. This is not caught by an umpire at this point. The runner from 3rd scores on a sac fly and then the defense appeals switching bases at 1st and 2nd. What's the call?

I'm not positive either, but I think I'd still call them both out, let the catch stand and consequently disallow the run. Both runners were still guilty of the violation during the intervening play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

What age?

If 12U or above I would eject the 3BC for unsportsmanlike conduct. Put the runners on the correct base and go on. The HC, if he/she is not already gone, will have a VERY short leash if they object.
If younger than 12, put the runners on the correct base and tell the HC not to let it happen again.

In either case, if the runner(s) advanced on the sac fly, I would put the runner(s) back to the TOP base.

Beth, who should be on 2nd, starts the pitch on 3rd and scores on the Sac Fly. Alyssa, who should be on 3rd, starts the pitch on 2nd and doesn't move on the fly out by Darla.

What exactly do you mean by "the TOP base"? Are you saying you'd put Alyssa back on 2nd and Beth back on 3rd - the TOP bases?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I'm not positive either, but I think I'd still call them both out, let the catch stand and consequently disallow the run. Both runners were still guilty of the violation during the intervening play.

Guilty of what violation, exactly?

[Big Slick]

NCAA rule (notice the AR):

12-10-5 When, after a conference, base runners switch positions on the bases they occupied, the ball has been put back in play, and before the end of the half-inning.

EFFECT—Each base runner on the improper base shall be declared out and ejected. In addition, the head coach shall be ejected for unsportsmanlike behavior.

A.R. 12-10: After a conference with the bases loaded and no outs, the base runner from third base returns to her base but the base runners from second and first bases switch places. The base runner from third base scores on a sacrifice fly (first out) and then the defense appeals switching bases at second and first bases. RULING: The run does not score as the second and third outs are made on the appeal. (Note: Both players and the head coach are also ejected.)

ASA and NFHS rules are similar (I don't have my books at work), however I'm unsure about how long you get to appeal. NCAA allows you until the end of the half inning, as long as a runner is on base.

Therefore, NCAA ruling is 3 outs, end of inning and no run, and 3 ejections.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Beth, who should be on 2nd, starts the pitch on 3rd and scores on the Sac Fly. Alyssa, who should be on 3rd, starts the pitch on 2nd and doesn't move on the fly out by Darla.

What exactly do you mean by "the TOP base"? Are you saying you'd put Alyssa back on 2nd and Beth back on 3rd - the TOP bases?

In the OP, Beth who should be on 2nd goes to first. Cassie is on 2nd when she shouldn't be. At the end of the play, he's counting Alyssa's run and having Beth and Cassie on first and second. This would only be correct if the intervening play somehow prevents us from calling Beth and Casie out which I don't see.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What exactly do you mean by "the TOP base"? Are you saying you'd put Alyssa back on 2nd and Beth back on 3rd - the TOP bases?

TOP - Time of Pitch

Put the correct runners on 2B and 1B as they were before the offensive conference started.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

NCAA rule (notice the AR):


ASA and NFHS rules are similar (I don't have my books at work), however I'm unsure about how long you get to appeal. NCAA allows you until the end of the half inning, as long as a runner is on base.

Therefore, NCAA ruling is 3 outs, end of inning and no run, and 3 ejections.

But the problem is that unlike NCAA; within the rule book ASA (can't speak to NFHS) does not provide us with an AR/interp in the Rules Supplement section for when we have a switch followed by an intervening play.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

What age?

If 12U or above I would eject the 3BC for unsportsmanlike conduct. Put the runners on the correct base and go on. The HC, if he/she is not already gone, will have a VERY short leash if they object.
If younger than 12, put the runners on the correct base and tell the HC not to let it happen again.

In either case, if the runner(s) advanced on the sac fly, I would put the runner(s) back to the TOP base.

In ASA, that action on your part is not supported by any rule.

[RKBUmp]

8-7-Y makes no mention of an intervening play. It says each runner on an improper base shall be declared out. Even if there was a play before it was caught, the runners who switched are still on an improper base.

[SAump]

BR is out as a result of playing action.
R1 passing R2 on baseline is out before the pitch.
R2 returning to touch 1B, is also out before the pitch, travesty of the game.

Ruling same as NCAA, minus ejections.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

8-7-Y makes no mention of an intervening play. It says each runner on an improper base shall be declared out. Even if there was a play before it was caught, the runners who switched are still on an improper base.

Lacking any further interpretation, I agree, both are out and coach is gone.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

TOP - Time of Pitch

Put the correct runners on 2B and 1B as they were before the offensive conference started.

Hey thanks... I know what TOP means. where they were at the TOP and where they were before the offensive conference are two different places... which is why I questioned you. TOP is wrong.

However ... placing these runners back on base at all is also wrong.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SAump

BR is out as a result of playing action.
R1 passing R2 on baseline is out before the pitch.
R2 returning to touch 1B, is also out before the pitch, travesty of the game.

Ruling same as NCAA, minus ejections.

Partially right result (3 outs), wrong reasons. Eject in Fed or ASA as well. Not positive on USFA.