Trivia 4

[MD Longhorn]

I confess I'm not positive about my ruling. The intervening play throws me.

Pick your rule code, and assume that you, the umpire, are positive of the following:

Bases loaded, no outs. After an offensive conference, the runners return to their bases -- except the base runners from 1st and 2nd switch places. This is not caught by an umpire at this point. The runner from 3rd scores on a sac fly and then the defense appeals switching bases at 1st and 2nd. What's the call?

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I confess I'm not positive about my ruling. The intervening play throws me.

Pick your rule code, and assume that you, the umpire, are positive of the following:

Bases loaded, no outs. After an offensive conference, the runners return to their bases -- except the base runners from 1st and 2nd switch places. This is not caught by an umpire at this point. The runner from 3rd scores on a sac fly and then the defense appeals switching bases at 1st and 2nd. What's the call?

What age?

If 12U or above I would eject the 3BC for unsportsmanlike conduct. Put the runners on the correct base and go on. The HC, if he/she is not already gone, will have a VERY short leash if they object.
If younger than 12, put the runners on the correct base and tell the HC not to let it happen again.

In either case, if the runner(s) advanced on the sac fly, I would put the runner(s) back to the TOP base.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

What age?

If 12U or above I would eject the 3BC for unsportsmanlike conduct. Put the runners on the correct base and go on. The HC, if he/she is not already gone, will have a VERY short leash if they object.
If younger than 12, put the runners on the correct base and tell the HC not to let it happen again.

In either case, if the runner(s) advanced on the sac fly, I would put the runner(s) back to the TOP base.

Beth, who should be on 2nd, starts the pitch on 3rd and scores on the Sac Fly. Alyssa, who should be on 3rd, starts the pitch on 2nd and doesn't move on the fly out by Darla.

What exactly do you mean by "the TOP base"? Are you saying you'd put Alyssa back on 2nd and Beth back on 3rd - the TOP bases?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Beth, who should be on 2nd, starts the pitch on 3rd and scores on the Sac Fly. Alyssa, who should be on 3rd, starts the pitch on 2nd and doesn't move on the fly out by Darla.

What exactly do you mean by "the TOP base"? Are you saying you'd put Alyssa back on 2nd and Beth back on 3rd - the TOP bases?

In the OP, Beth who should be on 2nd goes to first. Cassie is on 2nd when she shouldn't be. At the end of the play, he's counting Alyssa's run and having Beth and Cassie on first and second. This would only be correct if the intervening play somehow prevents us from calling Beth and Casie out which I don't see.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What exactly do you mean by "the TOP base"? Are you saying you'd put Alyssa back on 2nd and Beth back on 3rd - the TOP bases?

TOP - Time of Pitch

Put the correct runners on 2B and 1B as they were before the offensive conference started.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

TOP - Time of Pitch

Put the correct runners on 2B and 1B as they were before the offensive conference started.

Hey thanks... I know what TOP means. where they were at the TOP and where they were before the offensive conference are two different places... which is why I questioned you. TOP is wrong.

However ... placing these runners back on base at all is also wrong.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

What age?

If 12U or above I would eject the 3BC for unsportsmanlike conduct. Put the runners on the correct base and go on. The HC, if he/she is not already gone, will have a VERY short leash if they object.
If younger than 12, put the runners on the correct base and tell the HC not to let it happen again.

In either case, if the runner(s) advanced on the sac fly, I would put the runner(s) back to the TOP base.

In ASA, that action on your part is not supported by any rule.

[RKBUmp]

8-7-Y makes no mention of an intervening play. It says each runner on an improper base shall be declared out. Even if there was a play before it was caught, the runners who switched are still on an improper base.

[SAump]

BR is out as a result of playing action.
R1 passing R2 on baseline is out before the pitch.
R2 returning to touch 1B, is also out before the pitch, travesty of the game.

Ruling same as NCAA, minus ejections.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SAump

BR is out as a result of playing action.
R1 passing R2 on baseline is out before the pitch.
R2 returning to touch 1B, is also out before the pitch, travesty of the game.

Ruling same as NCAA, minus ejections.

Partially right result (3 outs), wrong reasons. Eject in Fed or ASA as well. Not positive on USFA.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by SAump

Staying with ASA rules .......

BR is out as a result of playing action.
OK

R1 passing R2 on baseline is out before the pitch.
But this action occurred during a dead ball. Not sure if 8.7.D fits here. But if we can apply 8.7.D, do we call and signal R1 out prior to the pitch?

R2 returning to touch 1B, is also out before the pitch, travesty of the game.
I could be wrong, but I can't find a "travesty of the game" rule reference in the book. So are we supporting the out call of R2 with R/S#49, Sporting Behavior?

Ruling same as NCAA, minus ejections.
It's not the same ruling, not even close. NCAA has an AR (see Slick's earlier post) that covers this specific play.

An AR or interp from ASA would make all this a lot easier.

Separate from what's being asked in the OP, from a mechanics standpoint, what was the BU paying attention to during the conference???

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

8-7-Y makes no mention of an intervening play. It says each runner on an improper base shall be declared out. Even if there was a play before it was caught, the runners who switched are still on an improper base.

Lacking any further interpretation, I agree, both are out and coach is gone.

[SRW]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Lacking any further interpretation, I agree, both are out and coach is gone.

I'm in slight disagreement, for the sake of discussion. This was not caught until after a play was made. 8-7-Y says "...following any conference" ... not a play. So in the OP, a play has gone by, and one runner has scored (not on any base.) I find it hard to enforce 8-7-Y after the play has been made.

However... arguing the other way, say the runners switch after the conference, and it's noted before a play. Switch them back, no harm, no foul. Nothing has been done at this point to offend the defense. Following this logic, the rule must be in the book to deal with the situation after a play.

Flopping back to my first point, when would we stop enforcing the rule? After 2 plays have gone by? One pitch?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I confess I'm not positive about my ruling. The intervening play throws me.

Pick your rule code, and assume that you, the umpire, are positive of the following:

Bases loaded, no outs. After an offensive conference, the runners return to their bases -- except the base runners from 1st and 2nd switch places. This is not caught by an umpire at this point. The runner from 3rd scores on a sac fly and then the defense appeals switching bases at 1st and 2nd. What's the call?

I'm not positive either, but I think I'd still call them both out, let the catch stand and consequently disallow the run. Both runners were still guilty of the violation during the intervening play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I'm not positive either, but I think I'd still call them both out, let the catch stand and consequently disallow the run. Both runners were still guilty of the violation during the intervening play.

Guilty of what violation, exactly?