Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve (Post 859901)

Not sure if I could locate it immediately, but I am positive there is an NFHS ruling or case play which does require the player to pick the ball off the ground before the runner.

I am equally sure that ASA and NCAA both allow the umpire judgment of control if the player can come up with the ball cleanly, even after the runner has passed, as long as the player doesn't do anything additional (ie, now wrap fingers around, or tighten the grip) in between. Although you can more easily sell "no control" on the trap than control bringing it up later, the ability to sell it shouldn't affect how we call it, should it?

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 859867)

What makes it different... in both cases, the ball is under the control of the fielder. If they are able to pick it up, then they controlled it in that instant.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 859933)

Just curious ... I know a couple of you are quite a ways up the flagpole, so to speak, but 2 of you that I KNOW are high up seem to disagree on this. Wondering if one of you or both could contact someone from whom an opinion on this would be definitive. Now that we've posted this and the minds I trust to be right are not in agreement, I KNOW this will happen to me next year. :)

Originally Posted by ASA Ump MN (Post 860054)

Not that I'm a higher up or ever will be. :) I do plan running this by KR, CC or LM at the ASA advanced clinic if I'm able to attend it again next year.



How would you guys rule on a ball that is trapped/controlled "you pick" with the glove. Meaning a ball that is half sticking out of the outer webbing of the glove and the ball is on the ground. For instance, a scoop attempt at 1st. The runner passes 1B while the ball is on the ground and in the glove. Do you have an out if he lifts it cleanly after the runner gains the base?

Another interesting The Official Forum topic!!!

Thanks Much~

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 860087)

BTW, IMO, "show me the ball" has nothing to do with this, nor this have anything to do with "show me the ball".

Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 859949)

Don't have citation, but to me it is equivalent to a trapped ball. If ball is touching the ground in an effort to field the ball, "control" is being provided by the player and the ground. We don't have possession until the ball is lifted away.

For a play at a base, if in the process of catching the ball, the ball remains in contact with the ground or the base I wouldn't call an out unless the ball was lifted. But if Fn had ball in hand and the tags the base with the ball that would be an easy out.

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 860126)

I honestly can't understand why some people feel that a gripped ball that is still touching the ground is not under the fielder's control. If I ever see a ball fall from a fielder's hand when he/she grips it and then lifts the hand, then I'll change my opinion on this. But I feel pretty confident that that won't happen.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 860128)

Really? You ever see a defender lose the grip on the ball when applying a tag? I have, so obviously that "grip" isn't all it is made out to be.

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 860132)

All due respect, c'mon. Apples and cantaloupes. Of course I've seen that. But that's because a force is applied to the fielder's hand that causes him/her to lose that grip.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA (Post 860128)

Really? You ever see a defender lose the grip on the ball when applying a tag? I have, so obviously that "grip" isn't all it is made out to be.

It is real simple. The fielder needs to demonstrate control of the ball. Okay, demonstrate it. All a smart player would do is just roll over the hand holding the ball on the base.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 860180)

And my point (and others') is that picking it up without any sort of bobbling shows just that control. Picking up a ball off the ground and then rolling your hand over while still touching the ground with your hand, all while preparing to throw - that's a bit much.

Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 859949)

don't have citation, but to me it is equivalent to a trapped ball. If ball is touching the ground in an effort to field the ball, "control" is being provided by the player and the ground. We don't have possession until the ball is lifted away.

For a play at a base, if in the process of catching the ball, the ball remains in contact with the ground or the base i wouldn't call an out unless the ball was lifted. But if fn had ball in hand and the tags the base with the ball that would be an easy out.