IMJ, picking up the ball from the plate establishes control. However, the ball is no longer on the plate, and a separate action is required to record the force at home (either re-touching the plate with the ball or stepping on the plate would be fine).
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If the ball is on the ground and the fielder puts his hand on top of it, I can't tell if he has control or not. When he lifts the ball, that demonstrates control. As I said before, control started when he gripped the ball, but was not demonstrated to me until the ball was lifted. If the fielder never lifts the ball, I can't tell if he has control or not, so the benefit of that doubt goes to the offense. |
Thanks Andy!
"IMJ, picking up the ball from the plate establishes control. However, the ball is no longer on the plate, and a separate action is required to record the force at home (either re-touching the plate with the ball or stepping on the plate would be fine)." That's what my UIC just told me so I'm going with that.. :) |
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Now, wouldn't the same thing apply at the plate. Bases loaded, ball lands on the plate and the catcher can't find it. As the runner is about to get home the catcher grabs the ball and simply holds it against the plate. After the runner slides home she pulls it cleanly off the plate. I've got an out in ASA and no out in Fed, yes? |
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If you have a different answer here - justify that within the context of the rules. When the player lifts the ball, they demonstrate that they had control of the ball while it was on the ground being picked up. If they did not have control when they began to lift their hand, the ball would come out. |
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Rita |
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Sorry, but I don't buy that argument. I think it's perfectly acceptable to judge that when we see a fielder clearly grip the ball with his/her fingers around it, we can conclude that control was established at that point, regardless of what else the ball may be touching at that time. Unless the fielder has extremely tiny fingers, he/she is going to pick up that ball without any need for additional gripping or adjusting. It's not like trying to palm a basketball. If showing you the ball after a tag is enough to convince you that the fielder had the ball when he/she made the tag, then lifting the ball off the ground should equally be enough to convince you that the fielder had the ball when he/she gripped it. |
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Not sure if I could locate it immediately, but I am positive there is an NFHS ruling or case play which does require the player to pick the ball off the ground before the runner.
I am equally sure that ASA and NCAA both allow the umpire judgment of control if the player can come up with the ball cleanly, even after the runner has passed, as long as the player doesn't do anything additional (ie, now wrap fingers around, or tighten the grip) in between. Although you can more easily sell "no control" on the trap than control bringing it up later, the ability to sell it shouldn't affect how we call it, should it? |
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