strike zone:am I too sensitve?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by JEL
Cecilone, I dont know you well enough, you gotta be more specific.

Well, I'm not Cecil, but since you asked...

I always mention at pre-game, balls/strikes safes/outs are the umpires, we will not argue. That is my warning, no more.

I always ask for good sportsmanship to prevail at the plate meeting, but I never give a pre-emptive warning. Whatever is said at the plate meeting does not meet the requirements in the rules of an official warning. I think pre-emptive warnings set a bad tone.

I enjoy hearing some of the comments, like "How many of these are your kids blue" but its usually very clear when the line is crossed, and thats when I will bow up, and stop it.

Any comment questioning my integrity has immediately crossed the line.

[JEL]

Well, thats OK. To clarify, I do not say "this is a warning" in pre game, as inferred in post, I do try and emphasize that I will not allow arguements. The sentence (at pre-game) ends after "we will not argue". I will also always state, coaches are welcome to call time after play is finished, and we will discuss the call if you wish. I doubt I have ever antagonized a coach in a pre game this way. As for pre-emptive warnings, IMO the rule book is the warning, I need not warn at all.

Any comment (not agreeing with you) can be construed as questioning your integrity. Its easy, for me at least, to realize the fun, or humorous stuff, from the serious insults, and again, most of what I hear in the stands, I tend to ignore.

Each situation is as diverse as the umpires calling the games. That is why good judgment, and common sense should always prevail.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by JEL
Well, thats OK. To clarify, I do not say "this is a warning" in pre game, as inferred in post, I do try and emphasize that I will not allow arguements. The sentence (at pre-game) ends after "we will not argue". I will also always state, coaches are welcome to call time after play is finished, and we will discuss the call if you wish. I doubt I have ever antagonized a coach in a pre game this way. As for pre-emptive warnings, IMO the rule book is the warning, I need not warn at all.

Any comment (not agreeing with you) can be construed as questioning your integrity. Its easy, for me at least, to realize the fun, or humorous stuff, from the serious insults, and again, most of what I hear in the stands, I tend to ignore.

Each situation is as diverse as the umpires calling the games. That is why good judgment, and common sense should always prevail.

In a pre-game, I introduce the crew, double-check line-up cards, offer the ground rules and, if necessary, flip a coin.

Anyone who has worked a game with me knows that when I give the ground rules, you better be listening because I run through them quick enough I demand their attention. I know what they are before I walk on the field and at times will not even take my eyes off the coaches during my offering.

I do not offer any type of "warnings" or indication of expected behavior. The coaches expect me to know what my responsibilities are and, in turn, I expect the same from them. If they are not capable of that, I consider it that much more an edge I have in controling the game.

The coin flip is always the last event. If there is a clock on the game, I will take my watch off my wrist and show both team representatives the time. As they walk away, I inform them that they are now on the clock.

All I can say is that it works for me.

[bobbrix]

i, too, often wonder if i'm not generous enuf with the strike zone ... dare i bring up the black "non-plate" perimeter around some of the home plates out there ???

i still say it's not plate, but i do call strikes if the edge of the ball is over the black ... but i never call a strike if the ball's a couple inches inside or outside ... that just seems wrong

if i give anything, it's usually the odd shoulder-high pitch or a-little-below-the-knee pitch when i feel the game needs a little spicing up (too many walks or one team blowing away the other)

and, i coach, too, and often find myself "encouraging" the ump any time they are hesitating on a ball/strike call ... any hesitation and i yell "there it is!!!, great pitch !!!" (i think it works more often than not) ... then, if he/she calls a ball, i yell "that must have been close!!" or something similar

so, you're not alone, little jimmy ... if that makes you feel any better !!

[Little Jimmy]

Thanks for all the thoughtfull insight. As with many things in life, if you give it enough time you can answer the question yourself. The answer to my question "am I being too sensitive?" is yes, I was.
Given a couple of days off to think about it, I realized that all the scenarios (except for the coaches' comment) were generally tolerable as one shot statements.They didn't make me happy but they didn't really cross over the line.
I had to be honest with myself and realize that I had worked 8 straight days doing 21 games in that time frame. A lot for me. I was slightly burned out.
Do I think that todays players are a bit less civil? Yes. Am I going to do my little part to emphasize a more positve approach? Yes again. But I do need to remember that it's still a free society (last time I checked) and disagreement is OK.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by JEL
Its easy, for me at least, to realize the fun, or humorous stuff, from the serious insults,

If you read my earlier post, you'd see I agree - attitude is more important that the actual words spoken most of the time.

If the coach is someone I know well, and he and I have a history of good natured comments, then, "Hey, Blue, how many of those kids are yours?" has and entirely different meaning than the same words shouted across the field by an agitated coach who has been chirping all game about one thing or another. The first gets a smile or a smart-alec come-back; the second gets an ejection.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

If you read my earlier post, you'd see I agree - attitude is more important that the actual words spoken most of the time.

If the coach is someone I know well, and he and I have a history of good natured comments, then, "Hey, Blue, how many of those kids are yours?" has and entirely different meaning than the same words shouted across the field by an agitated coach who has been chirping all game about one thing or another. The first gets a smile or a smart-alec come-back; the second gets an ejection.

It is possible that a good-natured relationship exist between umpires and participants. The response to the question above in some cases may be, "Don't know, check with your wife".

Blue, I thought only horses slept standing up?
Response: Give the count by stomping your feet.

Blue, shake your head, your eyes are stuck!
Response: Hit yourself alongside the head, turn to that person and thank them.

Blue, you're missing a great game.
Response: Yeah, but they assigned me to this one.

Blue, when do the real umpires show up?
Response: When you get real players on the field.

Blue, can I get some help here?
Response: They way this game is going, you're gonna need a lot.

or

Sure, but I'm a worse coach than I am an umpire.

I do not suggest you respond in this manner to anyone. Like Tom noted, if you have a GOOD history with a coach or player, some levity can be appreciated even if it seems the joke is on you.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by JEL
Cecilone, I dont know you well enough, you gotta be more specific.

Dakota saw the two main ones, but didn't mention the lower confidence pre-emptive warnings imply. My thinking is when a call is obviously correct, no one is really unhappy with us, although if it's the third out in the bottom of the seventh, they have to blame someone. We should not be paying attention to whether a catcher is cute or not, let alone saying it in writing. The catcher wiping the plate after you mentioned it seemed to be showing you up and had to be stopped.
Obviously, I strongly support your last sentence (I try always to never let the comments influence my calls, or to take it out on the players.).

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I for one, get peeved when I call a ball, and the defensive coach yells from the dugout "where was that pitch, catch?", and she answer him. To me, this is an attempt to show up the umpire. When the sides switch, I'll calmly and quietly tell him, "Coach, I'm not conducting a pitching clinic and neither are you or your catcher. Don't ask her again where a pitch was that I called. I consider it arguing strikes and balls which I don't allow." Then, I turn around and walk back to the plate. 99.9% of time, I don't hear anything else. If I even think I do, I'll give him a dirty look, that should stop any other comments for the rest of the game. If I do hear something, he's gone. I've only tossed 2 coaches for this in 17 years, 1 ASA, 1 NFHS.

[WestMichBlue]

I also am getting frustrated with strike zone calls. As I have grown in experience (both mine and the level of play that I am calling), my strike zone has been shrinking. I have called mostly H.S. varsity and H.S. tournaments this year, along with 18U/16U/14U travel tournaments, men's FP and women's FP and I am calling almost a book zone.

The ball has to be fully below the arm pits, and I still often call ones through the knees, though that is guaranteed to generate catcalls and some golf references. I will not go in inch inside, but maybe an inch+ outside. In nearly 100 games this season, I know my strike zone and can almost call it with my eyes closed. Many knowledgable people have said that I am very consistant, and that makes me feel good.

So Why - when I do not call that pitch 2 inches inside, or 4-5 inches outside - do I get a 13 to 15 yr old girl stomping her foot, shaking her ponytail, and giving me that look of disgust? I understand that they throw that pitch outside trying to get the batter to bite. But if the batter doesn't go for it, then do they think that I should give them a strike call? Someone is training these kids that the plate must be 24" wide. I don't know if it is their coaches, or their own (unrealistic) expectations, or (most likely) that too many umpires are calling toooooo wide a strike zone.

Just like there are "outie's," are there also "strikie's?" Umpires that want to call strikes; that want to move the game along? I don't know about the rest of you, but I am seldom in a hurry to go home. I really love this game, and I enjoy being out there with the young girls (and adults) that play FP softball. I want to see hitting, fielding, sliding, etc. What I don't like are too many batters swinging at bad pitches. Maybe it is their own mistakes; but maybe also they are protecting themselves because those pitches are being call strikes.

WMB

[Edited by WestMichBlue on Jul 10th, 2003 at 06:16 PM]

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

Give them a ball's width on either side of the plate. I was taught that by ISF umpires, and you'll call more strikes that way. It is a hitable pitch, don't cheat the pitcher. Become a 'pitcher's umpire' and believe me, the games will have more batters hitting and less walks.

[WestMichBlue]

"Give them a ball's width on either side of the plate"

Elaine - please define "ball's width." If you mean the inside edge of the ball is touching the plate (the outside edge is then 4" off the plate) then I fully agree. I even go an inch further to the outside. So from outside edge of ball to outside edge, my strike zone is 26" wide(4"+17"+5") from the waist down. (Much narrower at the top.)

But if you are saying that the inside edge of the ball is a "ball's width" off the plate, then NO WAY! It is those balls 3" - 4" off the plate that I see pitchers and catchers expecting to be called strikes. That is what is frustrating me. Who is teaching those kids that those balls should be strikes?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Become a 'pitcher's umpire'

Interesting comment because I have been a pitching coach for many years. I love the inside corner pitch at the knees which, when well placed, is almost unhittable. I've taken a lot of catcalls over the years for calling that pitch. (Especially at younger levels where the knees are only 12" off the ground and the catcher's are too far back. All the fans see is F2 catching the ball on her shoe tops!)

But I like hitting also, and I see too many players swinging at pitches that are 4"-5" outside. (By that I mean with an air gap of 4"-5" between the closest edge of the ball and the plate.) I think that they are swinging at them because they are being call strikes (when they shouldn't be).

WMB

[bobbrix]

"Give them a ball's width on either side of the plate"

yikes!!!! no way, absolutely not

(yes, define what you mean by that criteria ... if you truly mean the ball is inches off the edge of the plate and you're calling that a strike, then that is just wrong)


"It is a hittable pitch, don't cheat the pitcher."

our job does not include making subjective allowances on the strike zone for batters or for pitchers ... if you're calling strikes on pitches that are inches off the plate then you are just confusing everyone on the diamond (pitchers, batters, coaches, fans, other umpires, etc)

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

Ok, calm down. You call your zone, I'll call mine. I was trained by ISF umpires and Merle's staff on plate mechanics and received 'excellent' on every evaluation I had at many, many tournaments including Nationals, Regionals, etc. by the ASA National Umpire Staff.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
... snip ... If you mean the inside edge of the ball is touching the plate (the outside edge is then 4" off the plate) then I fully agree. ... snip ...

This is customarily taught at clinics and I assume what Elaine is referring to.

As far as being a pitcher's umpire, that should only be when the hitters are dominating the pitcher, like slow pitch. In FP, most pitchers have the advantage, so I don't think we should help them, although I respect Elaine's evaluations.

I also believe that we should all strive to have similar strike zones with the differences being individual perception and not pre-planned strategies.