Mechanics clinic

[Big Slick]

Maybe another thread should be started on the differences in organizations, but . . .

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, this begs...oh, never mind.

What are the significant differences between NCAA mechanics and ASA/NFHS mechanics? . . . And I do have a CCA Manual, but it really only covers three-man, and I work a lot of two-man at the JuCo level.

There is your major mechanic difference. In NCAA, the "base system" is three umpire while the "base system" for ASA/NFHS is two umpires. Working a college game with two umpires is 3 umpires minus one, or basically when an umpire chases. There are some special considerations for two umpire games which were in the manual (now exclusively on Arbiter). They are:
-starting positions (including the "alternate starting position" with no runners on)
-working between pitches
-covering fly balls (which really isn't a difference)

ASA/NFHS three umpire system is the two umpire base "plus one."

The one I've heard of the most is rimming vs. button-hooking when I start in A. But what are the other major differences? Are there really that many? From partners I've worked with, I can't recall anything significantly different.

You probably want to drop the use of *that* word. That was introduced as the verb form on "working the rim" meaning "staying outside." I refer to it as a non adherence to the inside-outside theory. Probably don't want to use google on how to do it.

Now, with that being said, it isn't only from "A" (actually, no softball organization labels starting positions that way, but that's another topic). But staying outside is part of a bigger difference with NCAA - you have responsibilities and calling positionS (emphasis on the plural), and how you get there is not of concern. The process involves more of reading the play/ball/partners, processing and then reacting (and the credit to that is the CAA manual). ASA/NFHS is more IF-Then type of action. That's why there is inside-outside theory, it is easier to IF-Then.

College ball is umpiring conceptually; you can survive as an IF-then umpire, but you won't thrive. Most ASA/NFHS umpires can thrive as IF-then, but the ones that do survive (especially at upper levels) take the conceptual approach.

Now, let me be clear that my statements are not critiques, just noticed differences. And there are fundamental factors for this: level of play, level of umpires. One isn't better than the other, there is just "differences."

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Now, with that being said, it isn't only from "A" (actually, no softball organization labels starting positions that way, but that's another topic).

Busted.

Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee this morning, but I got lost in your philosophical description. I don't really understand the difference between "3 umpires minus one" and "two umpires plus one" and how that translates to mechanics on the field. Sorry...

Are you saying that in NCAA there really is no single solution to a situation? Let's say I'm behind F6 (what I would erroneously refer to as "C" ) with runners at second and third. The batter hits a single to right, and F9 throws home to make a play on R2. The throw is cutoff by F3, and she throws to F6 covering second to make a play on the BR. Is it okay for me to take a few steps towards second while staying outside and make the call from there? Or should I have gone in between the pitcher's plate and second to call from there?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Busted.

Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee this morning, but I got lost in your philosophical description. I don't really understand the difference between "3 umpires minus one" and "two umpires plus one" and how that translates to mechanics on the field. Sorry...

Actually, I like the way BS worded it. I believe he means that based on the preferred system, a 2-umpire crew is a member short in NCAA while a 3-umpire crew is a member extra in the ASA and when this occurs, the each organization's basic mechanics are adjusted to allow for the difference.

Are you saying that in NCAA there really is no single solution to a situation? Let's say I'm behind F6 (what I would erroneously refer to as "C" ) with runners at second and third. The batter hits a single to right, and F9 throws home to make a play on R2. The throw is cutoff by F3, and she throws to F6 covering second to make a play on the BR. Is it okay for me to take a few steps towards second while staying outside and make the call from there? Or should I have gone in between the pitcher's plate and second to call from there?

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Are you saying that in NCAA there really is no single solution to a situation?

Yes, that is the entire purpose of Reading-processing-reacting.

Let's say I'm behind F6 (what I would erroneously refer to as "C" ) with runners at second and third. The batter hits a single to right, and F9 throws home to make a play on R2. The throw is cutoff by F3, and she throws to F6 covering second to make a play on the BR. Is it okay for me to take a few steps towards second while staying outside and make the call from there? Or should I have gone in between the pitcher's plate and second to call from there?

Again, you really can't say. You have to see the play to react to it. I know that responsibilities are mainly for the BR in this case. What I'm "exactly" doing on this play is something that the play dictates. I know the first thing I'm doing is "nothing" . . . that helps me read the play. Then as the play develops, then I purposefully move to meet my responsibilities.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Are you saying that in NCAA there really is no single solution to a situation? Let's say I'm behind F6 (what I would erroneously refer to as "C" ) with runners at second and third. The batter hits a single to right, and F9 throws home to make a play on R2. The throw is cutoff by F3, and she throws to F6 covering second to make a play on the BR. Is it okay for me to take a few steps towards second while staying outside and make the call from there? Or should I have gone in between the pitcher's plate and second to call from there?

I would say that might have the final play covered, almost; but wouldn't be anywhere near an acceptable coverage of all the possible plays. One of the core philosophies of NCAA is to be in a position to cover ANY anticipated next play, always understanding there is a possible next play.

First, to start where you state, it must be stated that you are in two-person mechanics; that is already not the NCAA standard, as noted by others.

Second, your movements (or rather, lack of) ignore the real possibility that B3, after hitting a "single to right", may return to first on the cutoff, that someone may be there to make a play on B3; well, you are still outside behind the starting F6 position?? Many teams would leave F3 trailing back to cover 1st, with F1 being the cutoff, and you are nowhere. As long as the play goes where you anticipated, you saved a lot of steps, but if it goes back, and there is a close play, you will be wearing a coach for a while (pick which one based on your call).

Third, any tag play is expected (by CCA Manual) to have an umpire 90 degrees to the plane of the tag, and 6-9 feet away. In your stated and anticipated play, that will entail more than a few steps from starting position, and the 90 will require you move from "staying outside", with the leading edge the 1st base side of 2nd, with a real possibility of a back side (right field side) slide; to be prepared for the possible play back to 1st will require many more steps, not allow you to stay outside on the F6 side.

I would expect a quality evaluator to tell you that the preferred movement would have you busting inside to a midpoint between 1st and 2nd (in case the throw doesn't come home, but directly to 2nd, or even behind B3 rounding 1st), then, as the throw comes toward home, attempting to work back outside between 1st and 2nd if possible (to avoid the throw from cutoff now behind you), only if you can do that in front of the hesitating B3 reading the throw; but reading B3 to determine which base the next play might be at.

Again, as long as the play ends exactly as you describe, you won't look out of position (to a coach); but with the variation that is very possible, you are woefully calling long distance without an angle. While being proponents of working outside, the NCAA gurus consider that an option to keep elements of plays in front of you, not a default to justify bad positioning on a call.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I would say that might have the final play covered, almost; but wouldn't be anywhere near an acceptable coverage of all the possible plays. One of the core philosophies of NCAA is to be in a position to cover ANY anticipated next play, always understanding there is a possible next play.

First, to start where you state, it must be stated that you are in two-person mechanics; that is already not the NCAA standard, as noted by others.

Second, your movements (or rather, lack of) ignore the real possibility that B3, after hitting a "single to right", may return to first on the cutoff, that someone may be there to make a play on B3; well, you are still outside behind the starting F6 position?? Many teams would leave F3 trailing back to cover 1st, with F1 being the cutoff, and you are nowhere. As long as the play goes where you anticipated, you saved a lot of steps, but if it goes back, and there is a close play, you will be wearing a coach for a while (pick which one based on your call).

Third, any tag play is expected (by CCA Manual) to have an umpire 90 degrees to the plane of the tag, and 6-9 feet away. In your stated and anticipated play, that will entail more than a few steps from starting position, and the 90 will require you move from "staying outside", with the leading edge the 1st base side of 2nd, with a real possibility of a back side (right field side) slide; to be prepared for the possible play back to 1st will require many more steps, not allow you to stay outside on the F6 side.

I would expect a quality evaluator to tell you that the preferred movement would have you busting inside to a midpoint between 1st and 2nd (in case the throw doesn't come home, but directly to 2nd, or even behind B3 rounding 1st), then, as the throw comes toward home, attempting to work back outside between 1st and 2nd if possible (to avoid the throw from cutoff now behind you), only if you can do that in front of the hesitating B3 reading the throw; but reading B3 to determine which base the next play might be at.

Again, as long as the play ends exactly as you describe, you won't look out of position (to a coach); but with the variation that is very possible, you are woefully calling long distance without an angle. While being proponents of working outside, the NCAA gurus consider that an option to keep elements of plays in front of you, not a default to justify bad positioning on a call.

Along with staying clear of throwing lanes.

[MD Longhorn]

Depending on the speed of the hit to right, and realizing that there are always two places that are 90 degrees - would reverse-working the rim work on this play? IOW, following the grass-dirt border from "C" to about "B", watching F9 and BR until the throw gets past you - this leaves you in about the same position you normally are on a single runner at first, the ball near catcher, with a possibility of the runner going to second. A good 90 to either base depending on where the runner goes (and the throw). You are still in position if F9's throw goes to 1st and there's a play there.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Depending on the speed of the hit to right, and realizing that there are always two places that are 90 degrees - would reverse-working the rim work on this play? IOW, following the grass-dirt border from "C" to about "B", watching F9 and BR until the throw gets past you - this leaves you in about the same position you normally are on a single runner at first, the ball near catcher, with a possibility of the runner going to second. A good 90 to either base depending on where the runner goes (and the throw). You are still in position if F9's throw goes to 1st and there's a play there.

The key is the speed of the hit; and the speed in your legs. For many/most umpires I know, if there is enough time to reverse-rim and get to a 90 to 1st, it is highly unlikely there is going to be a throw home first, the outfielder in NCAA is throwing that to 2nd, if not behind the runner at 1st. At some point, you no longer have all the elements (1) BR touching 1st, 2) outfielder throw, 3) B3 reading and reacting to throw) in front of you, and/or you are possibly cutting across the throwing lane to 2nd.

As Big Slick noted, read-process-react. The shortest distance to the desired location with ability to cover both possible plays is a straight line, taking you inside (at least initially).