Mechanics clinic

[KJUmp]

Has anyone ever had the occasion to participate in (as an attendee or a clinician) a mechanics clinic/training session that was, for lack of a better phrase, non-organizational specific?

In other words, it wasn't a clinic/training session that was specifically dealing with NFHS, ASA, NSA, USSSA, NCAA, etc. mechanics. Rather the content presented dealt more with the importance/value, reasoning, logic, philosophy of mechanics. Umpiring X's and O's if you will, that no matter what codes you work under, or your experience level, you got something of value from attending.

I'd appreciate any thoughts and feedback (positive or negative) if you've have been part of such a training session, or if you haven't, your thoughts on the concept.....especially from any members who have experience as clinicians and/or trainers.

[AtlUmpSteve]

NO. Never been part of a universal clinic, and I doubt anyone else has, either.

My version of reality has every clinic serving a purpose for a specific organization; or, at least, any clinician espousing the philosophy of the primary organization of affiliation or recognition.

I could see quite a few very capable of a multi-organization rules or mechanics clinic (EA in Arizona comes to mind immediately, followed by WS in Texas, JF in Ohio); but the reality is that the major organizations (speaking ASA/NCAA/NFHS/PGF) have very differing missions, and thus philosophies. I think it would be almost impossible to create a single generic and universally accepted core.

JMO.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

...I think it would be almost impossible to create a single generic and universally accepted core...

Universally accepted? Agree. But, if you limit it to youth fastpitch, I would think the core would be quite large, indeed. Base it on NFHS/ASA, and everybody else just kind of goes along for the ride. Who else even DOES umpire schools that cover on-field mechanics? (No one around here.)

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Universally accepted? Agree. But, if you limit it to youth fastpitch, I would think the core would be quite large, indeed. Base it on NFHS/ASA, and everybody else just kind of goes along for the ride. Who else even DOES umpire schools that cover on-field mechanics? (No one around here.)

Well, while not specifically consider youth, the NCAA seems to have the biggest impact on variations of mechanics trickling down to ASA and NFHS. Even basics, like, how close/far to be to a play, approved/nonapproved signals, what angle and direction to hammer, working outside or buttonhooking, chasing or not chasing fly balls, and on and on and on.

The issue is that the higher level umpires that work collegiately are almost universally trainers, or assisting the trainers for ASA and NFHS. The "I do it this way in college" mentality is better than the "NCAA is a higher level game, so the mechanics are what everyone should be changing to", but that erodes at any consistency.

[Dakota]

But, if you try to do a universal mechanics school that includes NCAA, NCAA has several mechanics that would not apply to or are not recommended by ASA/NFHS for lower levels, such as "rimming" (as previously discussed here), whereas ASA & NFHS mechanics are, for all practical purposes, already identical.

Sure, many ASA/NFHS clinicians are also NCAA umpires, but they (of all people) should take seriously their responsibility when conducting an ASA or NFHS school and not make it their personal hobby horse for their favorite NCAA differences.

[DaveASA/FED]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Sure, many ASA/NFHS clinicians are also NCAA umpires, but they (of all people) should take seriously their responsibility when conducting an ASA or NFHS school and not make it their personal hobby horse for their favorite NCAA differences.

I couldn't agree with you more.....but I know for a fact that a LOT of clinicians do cross over and bring the NCAA mechanics into ASA and NFHS clinics, or at least that has been my experience in my area. The old when in Rome thing I guess wasn't announced to them. This is a huge pet peeve of mine, it leads to inconsistency and honestly I feel bad for the students that leave saying "Well this is what I learned at the ASA school I attended". Then they get to a tournament and have a UIC crawl up their backside for using the wrong mechanics!!!

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by DaveASA/FED

I couldn't agree with you more.....but I know for a fact that a LOT of clinicians do cross over and bring the NCAA mechanics into ASA and NFHS clinics, or at least that has been my experience in my area. The old when in Rome thing I guess wasn't announced to them. This is a huge pet peeve of mine, it leads to inconsistency and honestly I feel bad for the students that leave saying "Well this is what I learned at the ASA school I attended". Then they get to a tournament and have a UIC crawl up their backside for using the wrong mechanics!!!

Fortunately for me, I have had the opposite experience.
At the NFHS State and ASA (local or NUS) clinics I have attended, the clinicians have made it a point to mention that NCAA has some different mechanics but we are here to learn ASA or NFHS.
Sometimes when it was a common difference (like rimming or covering first when U1 goes out), the difference was emphasized and it was repeated that we are doing ASA or NFHS.

[PATRICK]

I sell equipment, so I go to a lot of different clinics.
I go to this baseball clinic every year run by a teacher at Evans school.
I love hearing him talk philosophy of umpiring because most of what he says is universal.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by PATRICK

I sell equipment, so I go to a lot of different clinics.
I go to this baseball clinic every year run by a teacher at Evans school.
I love hearing him talk philosophy of umpiring because most of what he says is universal.

Philosophy and people skills are two universal concepts that could probably apply across officiating any sport at any level.

When we talk about mechanics, however, the two major bodies that have published SB mechanics (NCAA and ASA), we run into some differences.

The NCAA mechanics were designed for that specific game, which is the consistently highest level of the FP game out there.

ASA mechanics were designed "for the masses". ASA mechanics will work at any level of FP or SP softball.

In my opinion, a great number of umpires that have made it to the college level become "umpire snobs" and think that the NCAA mechanics are the only way to go. Some no longer want to have anything to do with what they perceive as "lower level" ball.

I would agree with Steve, it would be almost impossible to have a "universal" mechanics clinic. However, a universal "philosophy of umpiring" clinic is viable, in my opinion.

[Manny A]

Well, this begs...oh, never mind.

What are the significant differences between NCAA mechanics and ASA/NFHS mechanics?

I have never attended an NCAA umpire clinic that covered mechanics in a comprehensive manner. The ones I've been to only go over rule changes, mechanics changes, and a lot of administrative requirements of the association. And I do have a CCA Manual, but it really only covers three-man, and I work a lot of two-man at the JuCo level.

The one I've heard of the most is rimming vs. button-hooking when I start in A. But what are the other major differences? Are there really that many? From partners I've worked with, I can't recall anything significantly different.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by manny a

well, this begs...oh, never mind....

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, this begs...oh, never mind.

What are the significant differences between NCAA mechanics and ASA/NFHS mechanics?

I have never attended an NCAA umpire clinic that covered mechanics in a comprehensive manner. The ones I've been to only go over rule changes, mechanics changes, and a lot of administrative requirements of the association. And I do have a CCA Manual, but it really only covers three-man, and I work a lot of two-man at the JuCo level.

The one I've heard of the most is rimming vs. button-hooking when I start in A. But what are the other major differences? Are there really that many? From partners I've worked with, I can't recall anything significantly different.

Some that come to mind:
Putting the ball in play or not
Housekeeping the base and pitcher's plate
Who cover's first when U1 goes out (3 man)
There are more

[Big Slick]

Maybe another thread should be started on the differences in organizations, but . . .

Originally Posted by Manny A

Well, this begs...oh, never mind.

What are the significant differences between NCAA mechanics and ASA/NFHS mechanics? . . . And I do have a CCA Manual, but it really only covers three-man, and I work a lot of two-man at the JuCo level.

There is your major mechanic difference. In NCAA, the "base system" is three umpire while the "base system" for ASA/NFHS is two umpires. Working a college game with two umpires is 3 umpires minus one, or basically when an umpire chases. There are some special considerations for two umpire games which were in the manual (now exclusively on Arbiter). They are:
-starting positions (including the "alternate starting position" with no runners on)
-working between pitches
-covering fly balls (which really isn't a difference)

ASA/NFHS three umpire system is the two umpire base "plus one."

The one I've heard of the most is rimming vs. button-hooking when I start in A. But what are the other major differences? Are there really that many? From partners I've worked with, I can't recall anything significantly different.

You probably want to drop the use of *that* word. That was introduced as the verb form on "working the rim" meaning "staying outside." I refer to it as a non adherence to the inside-outside theory. Probably don't want to use google on how to do it.

Now, with that being said, it isn't only from "A" (actually, no softball organization labels starting positions that way, but that's another topic). But staying outside is part of a bigger difference with NCAA - you have responsibilities and calling positionS (emphasis on the plural), and how you get there is not of concern. The process involves more of reading the play/ball/partners, processing and then reacting (and the credit to that is the CAA manual). ASA/NFHS is more IF-Then type of action. That's why there is inside-outside theory, it is easier to IF-Then.

College ball is umpiring conceptually; you can survive as an IF-then umpire, but you won't thrive. Most ASA/NFHS umpires can thrive as IF-then, but the ones that do survive (especially at upper levels) take the conceptual approach.

Now, let me be clear that my statements are not critiques, just noticed differences. And there are fundamental factors for this: level of play, level of umpires. One isn't better than the other, there is just "differences."

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

Now, with that being said, it isn't only from "A" (actually, no softball organization labels starting positions that way, but that's another topic).

Busted.

Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee this morning, but I got lost in your philosophical description. I don't really understand the difference between "3 umpires minus one" and "two umpires plus one" and how that translates to mechanics on the field. Sorry...

Are you saying that in NCAA there really is no single solution to a situation? Let's say I'm behind F6 (what I would erroneously refer to as "C" ) with runners at second and third. The batter hits a single to right, and F9 throws home to make a play on R2. The throw is cutoff by F3, and she throws to F6 covering second to make a play on the BR. Is it okay for me to take a few steps towards second while staying outside and make the call from there? Or should I have gone in between the pitcher's plate and second to call from there?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Busted.

Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee this morning, but I got lost in your philosophical description. I don't really understand the difference between "3 umpires minus one" and "two umpires plus one" and how that translates to mechanics on the field. Sorry...

Actually, I like the way BS worded it. I believe he means that based on the preferred system, a 2-umpire crew is a member short in NCAA while a 3-umpire crew is a member extra in the ASA and when this occurs, the each organization's basic mechanics are adjusted to allow for the difference.

Are you saying that in NCAA there really is no single solution to a situation? Let's say I'm behind F6 (what I would erroneously refer to as "C" ) with runners at second and third. The batter hits a single to right, and F9 throws home to make a play on R2. The throw is cutoff by F3, and she throws to F6 covering second to make a play on the BR. Is it okay for me to take a few steps towards second while staying outside and make the call from there? Or should I have gone in between the pitcher's plate and second to call from there?