the 'evil' timed games (ASA)

[Manny A]

Why do we need uniformity through some sort of guidelines in the book? Umpires already vary in their judgments when it comes to rain, cold, darkness, etc. Some umpires will stop the game the moment it starts to rain, and others will keep playing until there are actual puddles on the field.

If ASA were to try to come up with certain standardized guidelines, that would open the door for abuse, IMHO. Suppose the book says "In timed games, clocks should stop when an injury requires intervention by emergency personnel." Don't you think head coaches are going to force the umpire's hand by demanding a trainer come onto the field to tend to a runner who suddenly "hurt" her ankle while sliding?

I don't have a problem leaving it up to the umpire to decide, through his/her game management skills, when time should and should not stop.

[MD Longhorn]

USFA has a rule I like (perhaps the only one, actually) that if a coach (either coach) calls a conference in the last 5 minutes of the game, the clock stops. Before they did this, it seems every coach would use his maximum number of conferences when it helped to do so - causing no end of grumbles and bad feelings on the other side. That's not softball. Now, with the rule - no one calls a late conference unless they actually need a late conference. Last tourney of 13 games, I stopped the clock exactly once for this.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Why do we need uniformity through some sort of guidelines in the book? Umpires already vary in their judgments when it comes to rain, cold, darkness, etc. Some umpires will stop the game the moment it starts to rain, and others will keep playing until there are actual puddles on the field.

If ASA were to try to come up with certain standardized guidelines, that would open the door for abuse, IMHO. Suppose the book says "In timed games, clocks should stop when an injury requires intervention by emergency personnel." Don't you think head coaches are going to force the umpire's hand by demanding a trainer come onto the field to tend to a runner who suddenly "hurt" her ankle while sliding?

I don't have a problem leaving it up to the umpire to decide, through his/her game management skills, when time should and should not stop.

Suppose an umpire wished to get better at dealing with timed games. The only option right now is to ask another respected umpire. And that's not bad, but it's nice to empower umpires too by actually putting in writing some training on it.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by youngump

Suppose an umpire wished to get better at dealing with timed games. The only option right now is to ask another respected umpire. And that's not bad, but it's nice to empower umpires too by actually putting in writing some training on it.

And if an umpire wanted to get better at dealing with darkness issues, where does he go to now?

I, too, prefer the "limit plus one" method. Instead of "no new inning after 1:20", make it, "one more inning after 1:10", and be done with delay tactics. The other option to get those pool-play games in is to just make them five innings long.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

And if an umpire wanted to get better at dealing with darkness issues, where does he go to now?

There are a number of such issues. (Though I think darkness is not high on the priority list.) I'd like my fix for all of them.

Originally Posted by Manny A

I, too, prefer the "limit plus one" method. Instead of "no new inning after 1:20", make it, "one more inning after 1:10", and be done with delay tactics. The other option to get those pool-play games in is to just make them five innings long.

Doesn't this just create the same incentive? I don't want to start a new inning at 1:09 and defend my lead for two innings. I'd rather stall and only have to protect one inning at 1:10.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The other option to get those pool-play games in is to just make them five innings long.

Not conducive to time-sensitive play, like tournaments. I've had 5 innings in an hour ... and I've had 5 innings in 2:30. Especially in tourneys without a run rule, this can be a problem.

[Andy]

The issue is that softball is a game that is designed NOT to have a clock.

Time limits were introduced to keep tournaments on time. How many of you have been to an ASA national tournament where a time limit was used? Granted the level of play is much different than your average local weekend tournament, so the length of the game (timewise) is not usually an issue.

My opinion is that ASA, as a national governing body, resists introducing rules concerning a time clock since the game is not supposed to have one in the first place. The only thing covered in the book is when a the clock is supposed to start on a timed game. I think (my opinion) that rule was put in the book with great reluctance under some pressure.

Just from this post, we can see that there are different ideas of when the clock is to be stopped, just as there are to when it should be started, etc....

Trying to standardize this could be quite an undertaking...

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Andy

Time limits were introduced to keep tournaments on time. How many of you have been to an ASA national tournament where a time limit was used?

By 'Code' only 'B' Nationals can have a time limit in effect for Bracket Play. (however some 'A' divisions have a time limit for pool play) But that is really not the point. The point is that there can be and are time limits in 'championship Play' for all J.O. Divisions (including GOLD) when it come to National Qualifier Tournaments. whether you are I agree or disagree as to the merits of a time limits really is not the issue. As now, time limits are a fact of ASA Championship Play. That being said, and like Bretman stated, its the lack of uniformity and even rules citing is a problem.

[qcumpire]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

By 'Code' only 'B' Nationals can have a time limit in effect for Bracket Play. (however some 'A' divisions have a time limit for pool play) But that is really not the point. The point is that there can be and are time limits in 'championship Play' for all J.O. Divisions (including GOLD) when it come to National Qualifier Tournaments. whether you are I agree or disagree as to the merits of a time limits really is not the issue. As now, time limits are a fact of ASA Championship Play. That being said, and like Bretman stated, its the lack of uniformity and even rules citing is a problem.

There is a time limit for all play in 10U A Nationals. 1:40.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The issue is that softball is a game that is designed NOT to have a clock.

Time limits were introduced to keep tournaments on time. How many of you have been to an ASA national tournament where a time limit was used?

Me! Clock is allowed in pool play. For that matter, a TD can initiate the use of a clock anytime they deem it necessary to complete the tournament.

[3afan]

in my local league we have to stop the clock for ANY time out if there are under 5 minutes remaining - HATE IT!

we forget alot :-)

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Why do we need uniformity through some sort of guidelines in the book? Umpires already vary in their judgments when it comes to rain, cold, darkness, etc. Some umpires will stop the game the moment it starts to rain, and others will keep playing until there are actual puddles on the field.

If ASA were to try to come up with certain standardized guidelines, that would open the door for abuse, IMHO. Suppose the book says "In timed games, clocks should stop when an injury requires intervention by emergency personnel." Don't you think head coaches are going to force the umpire's hand by demanding a trainer come onto the field to tend to a runner who suddenly "hurt" her ankle while sliding?

I don't have a problem leaving it up to the umpire to decide, through his/her game management skills, when time should and should not stop.

^^^^^This.......

In well over two thousand games......I think I have stopped the clock 4-5 times. Many others due to weather....but that is a different thread.

All of them involved broken bones.

The judgement is ours.....just like a banger at 1st base. I am damn sure not stopping the clock for any of the following.....

...Routine injury
...Player substitution
...Player needing to tie her shoes*
...Legal time out
...Coach questioning a call
...Kid having to go to the bathroom

*If I think a coach is calling time to stall by having a player tie their shoes......I tell all the players to check their shoes.....no more time outs given after then.

Joel