Need Help Explaining This

[Andy]

One of my umpires called me with a situation yesterday and wants to see somthing in the rules that covers this:

ASA rules - Team A is using the DP/FLEX option. In the third inning, DP enters the game on defense as the pitcher, the FLEX is playing another defensive position and the starting pitcher goes to the bench, but is still in the batting order.

DP (pitcher of record) comes up to bat, gets on base, coach requests a Courtesy Runner. I tell my umpire that this is legal.

He insists that the FLEX can only enter on offense for the DP, which is correct, but he is saying that precludes the use of a CR for a DP pitcher. So, he thinks that the only way the DP can be replaced on offense is by the FLEX.

How do I explain it to him, using the rules, that it is OK to have a CR for a DP pitcher?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

How do I explain it to him, using the rules, that it is OK to have a CR for a DP pitcher?

ASA 8-10-E says a CR cannot be used if the DP is batting for the pitcher. It does not say a CR cannot be used if the DP is in the game as the pitcher.

Per ASA 8-10-A-1, the CR can run for the pitcher of record. So in your situation, she can run for the DP who is pitching, and not for the previous pitcher who is now only playing offense.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

One of my umpires called me with a situation yesterday and wants to see somthing in the rules that covers this:

ASA rules - Team A is using the DP/FLEX option. In the third inning, DP enters the game on defense as the pitcher, the FLEX is playing another defensive position and the starting pitcher goes to the bench, but is still in the batting order.

DP (pitcher of record) comes up to bat, gets on base, coach requests a Courtesy Runner. I tell my umpire that this is legal.

He insists that the FLEX can only enter on offense for the DP, which is correct, but he is saying that precludes the use of a CR for a DP pitcher. So, he thinks that the only way the DP can be replaced on offense is by the FLEX.

How do I explain it to him, using the rules, that it is OK to have a CR for a DP pitcher?

As Manny said " CR can run for the pitcher of record". The situation is the DP player doing an allowed thing, playing defense for another player who is not the FLEX and does all that the other player's position involves including the CR. The FLEX has nothing to do with this, just the DP player and the replaced pitcher.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Andy

One of my umpires called me with a situation yesterday and wants to see somthing in the rules that covers this:

ASA rules - Team A is using the DP/FLEX option. In the third inning, DP enters the game on defense as the pitcher, the FLEX is playing another defensive position and the starting pitcher goes to the bench, but is still in the batting order.

DP (pitcher of record) comes up to bat, gets on base, coach requests a Courtesy Runner. I tell my umpire that this is legal.

He insists that the FLEX can only enter on offense for the DP, which is correct, but he is saying that precludes the use of a CR for a DP pitcher. So, he thinks that the only way the DP can be replaced on offense is by the FLEX.

How do I explain it to him, using the rules, that it is OK to have a CR for a DP pitcher?

There is no such thing as a DP Pitcher. There is a DP who happens to be playing pitcher. I know it's splitting hairs. But when you say DP Pitcher it makes it sound like she is in a separate category of pitchers. She's not. A pitcher is a pitcher. It does not matter that she was originally listed as the DP. For a pitcher or catcher to qualify for a CR all she has to do is be the last to play that position and earn her way on base. That applies in your scenario. She was the last to play the position and she earned her way on base.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by rwest

For a pitcher or catcher to qualify for a CR all she has to do is be the last to play that position and earn her way on base. That applies in your scenario. She was the last to play the position and she earned her way on base.

As long as you are splitting hairs, stay away from the phrase "earn her way on base". That restarts the whole "You can't have a courtesy runner for the runner placed on second in a tie-break inning because she didn't earn her way on" argument.

If either pitcher or catcher of record is on base (in any circumstance OTHER than FLEX running for DP), then she is eligible for a courtesy runner.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As long as you are splitting hairs, stay away from the phrase "earn her way on base". That restarts the whole "You can't have a courtesy runner for the runner placed on second in a tie-break inning because she didn't earn her way on" argument.

If either pitcher or catcher of record is on base (in any circumstance OTHER than FLEX running for DP), then she is eligible for a courtesy runner.

Steve,

I got that phrase from the FED rule book. Rule 8-9-2.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by rwest

Steve,

I got that phrase from the FED rule book. Rule 8-9-2.

Yep!! And the year NFHS added that wording, then NFHS had to issue an approved ruling clarifying the poorly written rule, instead of fixing the wording.

I would still avoid anything inherently contradictory to the rule, even in this case.

[CecilOne]

Yeah, it is sometimes hard to explain "earning her way on base" by "being the ninth scheduled batter".

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Yeah, it is sometimes hard to explain "earning her way on base" by "being the ninth scheduled batter".

Maybe she earned her way on base by striking out last inning!

[Steve M]

Andy,
I'd probably turn this back to your umpire and tell him to prove his stance is legal, according to the rules.