4th out appeal... or not?

[MD Longhorn]

Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. The batter flies out to center, but both runners left before the catch. The runner from 2nd scores, and the runner from 1st is put out trying to reach 1st to end the inning. Everyone but the catcher is in the dugout when they realize they missed the appeal at 2nd. Catcher is standing by the dugout beginning to remove her shinguards. They rush back out and appeal. What's the call?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. The batter flies out to center, but both runners left before the catch. The runner from 2nd scores, and the runner from 1st is put out trying to reach 3rd ?? to end the inning. Everyone but the catcher is in the dugout when they realize they missed the appeal at 2nd. Catcher is standing by the dugout beginning to remove her shinguards. They rush back out and appeal. What's the call?

Everyone has left fair territory, apparently? Oh, well.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Everyone has left fair territory, apparently? Oh, well.

Third? Why did you incorrectly "correct" the scenario?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Third? Why did you incorrectly "correct" the scenario?

I came to the same conclusion as CecilOne. A runner "reaches" a subsequent base, but "returns" to a previous base.

The call is, "Run Scores; No Appeal allowed." Per ASA 8-7 Effect, and similarly in other rule sets, the defense loses its opportunity to appeal when "The pitcher and all infielders have vacated their normal fielding positions and have left fair territory on their way to the team area."

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Third? Why did you incorrectly "correct" the scenario?

It was a question (? ?), probably immaterial to the case.

Sorry

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I came to the same conclusion as CecilOne. A runner "reaches" a subsequent base, but "returns" to a previous base.

Ah. I see why now. Fair enough.

I knew the answer, but was seeing if anyone would bite on the catcher, whose "normal position" is not in fair territory.

[bbsbvb83]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. The batter flies out to center, but both runners left before the catch. The runner from 2nd scores, and the runner from 1st is put out trying to reach 1st to end the inning. Everyone but the catcher is in the dugout when they realize they missed the appeal at 2nd. Catcher is standing by the dugout beginning to remove her shinguards. They rush back out and appeal. What's the call?

I would not allow the appeal in NFHS. I have no idea about other rules sets. Here is the NFHS rule:

Appeals must be made:
a. before the next legal or illegal pitch;
b. at the end of an inning, before all infielders have left fair territory and the
catcher vacates her normal fielding position; or
c. on the last play of the game, before the umpires leave the field of play.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

I knew the answer, but was seeing if anyone would bite on the catcher, whose "normal position" is not in fair territory.

True. And it's not by the dugout, either.

There is one thing missing from some (maybe all?) softball rule sets that you will find in baseball, and that's when the catcher (or another infielder) has to retrieve the ball from foul territory to initiate the appeal. In that case, the fielder is allowed to leave his "normal position in fair territory" and not be penalized.

But that's the case because in those organizations, they don't recognize a verbal-only appeal. The defense has to tag the runner or the base to make the appeal. In softball, where verbal-only appeals are allowed, I don't believe an infielder chasing down the ball in foul territory is going to maintain her ability to appeal. At least I think that's the case.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

In softball, where verbal-only appeals are allowed, I don't believe an infielder chasing down the ball in foul territory is going to maintain her ability to appeal. At least I think that's the case.

The right to appeal doesn't apply singularly to each fielder. If an infielder is chasing down a ball in foul territory, and her teammate (at least one) is still in fair territory or the catcher is still where she belongs, an appeal is still valid.

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Ah. I see why now. Fair enough.

I knew the answer, but was seeing if anyone would bite on the catcher, whose "normal position" is not in fair territory.

I bit on it