Dropped Pitch

[IRISHMAFIA]

Okay, next step.

What happens if the batter lays down the bat, takes off toward 1B and the ball rolls against it and stays in fair territory?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, next step.

What happens if the batter lays down the bat, takes off toward 1B and the ball rolls against it and stays in fair territory?

Out for hitting the ball while out of the box?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Out for hitting the ball while out of the box?

The rule (ASA, NFHS, NCAA) simply states the batter is out if the batter's foot is on the ground outside of the BB when contact is made, fair or foul.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Okay, next step.

What happens if the batter lays down the bat, takes off toward 1B and the ball rolls against it and stays in fair territory?

Why is batter taking off, she is assuming ball four?

7-6-D does not specify this but I believe this out would be called only if the batter still had the bat in her hand. Otherwise, on a discarded bat I am going to fall back on the distinction of ball hitting the bat vs bat hitting the ball. This rule is designed to penalize a batter who is hitting the ball while outside the box.

If this is going to be ball four, I see no reason why the batter must wait for the ball to reach the plate. As long as her discarding the bat cannot be considered INT it's simply ball four and now the batter isn't a batter she is a batter-runner so 7-6 ("The batter is out:") no longer applies.

Mind you, I like to call outs as much as the next umpire, but..

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Why is batter taking off, she is assuming ball four?

7-6-D does not specify this but I believe this out would be called only if the batter still had the bat in her hand. Otherwise, on a discarded bat I am going to fall back on the distinction of ball hitting the bat vs bat hitting the ball. This rule is designed to penalize a batter who is hitting the ball while outside the box.

Only a BR can "discard" a bat, so I don't think this would apply

If this is going to be ball four, I see no reason why the batter must wait for the ball to reach the plate. As long as her discarding the bat cannot be considered INT it's simply ball four and now the batter isn't a batter she is a batter-runner so 7-6 ("The batter is out:") no longer applies.

Just because a ball is rolling to the plate, does not make it ball four until it reaches the plate and is touched by the catcher. After all, the batter may still attempt to hit the ball if they choose, may even miss the ball. If a runner is stealing and the batter is standing there with the bat cocked and the catcher steps out in front of the plate, that is CO. You are making an assumption of a ruling that just isn't supported by the rules. In FP, the pitch hitting the ground is not a dead ball and the play must be allowed to come to come to a conclusion.

Mind you, I like to call outs as much as the next umpire, but..

And mind you, I'm only citing the rules which clearing state it is an out. Granted, the odds of a play like this occurring are remote, but the rules is what they is

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Just because a ball is rolling to the plate, does not make it ball four until it reaches the plate and is touched by the catcher. After all, the batter may still attempt to hit the ball if they choose, may even miss the ball.

Yes, the batter may still attempt to hit the ball. However, if she has discarded her bat and started to 1B, that ship has sailed. The pitch cannot become a strike unless she swings at it since it has hit the ground. And she has given up on swinging at it. So it's a ball. Still can't see any reason why batter must wait to go to 1B on this pitch..

8-1-C says the batter becomes a BR when four balls are called by the umpire. So when should the umpire call it a ball? 7-5-A says a ball is called by the umpire on any legally delivered pitch that does not enter the strike zone, touches the ground, or touches home plate and the batter does not swing.

This pitch has touched the ground and the batter has by discarding the bat and moving to 1B indicated she is not going to swing. It's ball four so now she is a batter-runner. When the dropped ball rolls against the bat, it is not a batter hitting the ball with one foot out of the box, it is a batter-runner whose discarded bat had the ball hit it. Which is nothing.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Yes, the batter may still attempt to hit the ball. However, if she has discarded her bat and started to 1B, that ship has sailed. The pitch cannot become a strike unless she swings at it since it has hit the ground. And she has given up on swinging at it. So it's a ball. Still can't see any reason why batter must wait to go to 1B on this pitch..

Where does it state the batter must be in the batter's hands?

8-1-C says the batter becomes a BR when four balls are called by the umpire. So when should the umpire call it a ball? 7-5-A says a ball is called by the umpire on any legally delivered pitch that does not enter the strike zone, touches the ground, or touches home plate and the batter does not swing.

You are reading something that is not there. It cannot be a ball until the batter no longer has the ability to hit the ball. And, again, nothing states the bat must be in the batter's hands NOR does the contact with the ball need to be intentional.

This pitch has touched the ground and the batter has by discarding the bat and moving to 1B indicated she is not going to swing. It's ball four so now she is a batter-runner. When the dropped ball rolls against the bat, it is not a batter hitting the ball with one foot out of the box, it is a batter-runner whose discarded bat had the ball hit it. Which is nothing.

Again, you are reading something that isn't there. Years ago when I was young and fast and played FP while in the USN, I often hung the bat over the plate to let the ball hit it. The ball really goes dead when there is nothing holding the bat. It was not unusual for me to actually release the bat prior to contact with the ball. That was not a discarded bat. And unless you can tell a batter is throwing the bat away and not laying it on the plate with intent of contacting the ball, you have no call until something happens.

This is a TWP and the only reason I raise it was because of my antics 40 years ago and the warnings I often received from umpires about the BB. However, my point is completely backed by the rules as written.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Years ago when I was young and fast and played FP while in the USN, I often hung the bat over the plate to let the ball hit it.

Irish.. thanks for your service, sir!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Does the batter leaving the box before the ball passes interfere with the catcher?

In what manner?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Hindering the catcher from "catching" the pitch if there is a play to be made.

You understand I'm supporting an out call on this?

Ernie has a lot of good points that throw a lot of twists into this, but my only point is that the rule states if the legally pitched ball is hit by the bat while the batter's foot is entirely out of the batter's box, the batter is out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Am I on the wrong question? Or are you saying the bat is still moving also?

Irrelevant

[CecilOne]

OK, I'm definitely on the wrong question.