Question from WCWS

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Personally, I thought this was a bad no-call ... and then even worse, a horrible mistake allowing the runner to score.

Let's put the part in red aside for a moment, and for this discussion let's set aside wether or not we're in agreement with U1's judgement of the play being a wreck or INF.

What I see on the video....
He reads the play, waits a second, decides he has a wreck, gives a clear and emphatic safe signal, two players are down, all hell is about to break loose, he keeps his head and focus, stays with the play, and is on top of the tag play for the out on the NDSC runner who was sprawled on the ground and crawling trying to reach 2nd base, then immediately has the Hawaii HC in his face arguing the call, handles himself well during the argument, then ejects the coach calmly and professionally.
All in all, IMO I thought it was a damm good piece of umpiring on his part.....there was a lot of stuff going on all in rapid fire.

Now the part in red. Agree, 100% a horrible mistake.

How could it have been avoided is my question? And I raise the question not to be judgmental on the crew, but to try to learn from their error. I mean lets be honest, this could happen to any one of us. I think in this particular situation, especially with not having been involved in the play, or any part of the argument and subsequent ejection, that if I'm the PU I've got to take the responsibility here.

Being as how the out at 2nd was the third out of the inning, ESPN broke away for a commercial. So we have know way of knowing what (if anything) the crew did during the time between innings.

And think about this......why/how didn't a "red flag" go up with any (of I'm sure numerous) game administrative personnel entering all the game info into a computerized box score, inning by inning, Game Track, etc. programs or on-site NCAA game staff.....or for that matter the Hawaii coaching staff?

Lots of knowledgeable people missed this......not just the umpiring crew.

Thoughts?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Let's put the part in red aside for a moment, and for this discussion let's set aside wether or not we're in agreement with U1's judgement of the play being a wreck or INF.

What I see on the video....
He reads the play, waits a second, decides he has a wreck, gives a clear and emphatic safe signal, two players are down, all hell is about to break loose, he keeps his head and focus, stays with the play, and is on top of the tag play for the out on the NDSC runner who was sprawled on the ground and crawling trying to reach 2nd base, then immediately has the Hawaii HC in his face arguing the call, handles himself well during the argument, then ejects the coach calmly and professionally.
All in all, IMO I thought it was a damm good piece of umpiring on his part.....there was a lot of stuff going on all in rapid fire.

Now the part in red. Agree, 100% a horrible mistake.

How could it have been avoided is my question? And I raise the question not to be judgmental on the crew, but to try to learn from their error. I mean lets be honest, this could happen to any one of us. I think in this particular situation, especially with not having been involved in the play, or any part of the argument and subsequent ejection, that if I'm the PU I've got to take the responsibility here.

Being as how the out at 2nd was the third out of the inning, ESPN broke away for a commercial. So we have know way of knowing what (if anything) the crew did during the time between innings.

And think about this......why/how didn't a "red flag" go up with any (of I'm sure numerous) game administrative personnel entering all the game info into a computerized box score, inning by inning, Game Track, etc. program or on-site NCAA game staff.....or for that matter the Hawaii coaching staff?

Thoughts?

So, I'd guess that Hawaii's HC doesn't throw himself out if the BU realizes the run doesn't count and comes out with: Coach, this wasn't interference because ... but the runner was tagged out for the third out of the inning anyway, so even if I called interference the result of the play is still no runs scoring.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by youngump

So, I'd guess that Hawaii's HC doesn't throw himself out if the BU realizes the run doesn't count and comes out with: Coach, this wasn't interference because ... but the runner was tagged out for the third out of the inning anyway, so even if I called interference the result of the play is still no runs scoring.

If the argument was about the run counting, I would think that the Hawaii HC would initially be in a discussion (as opposed to an argument) with the PU. Which probably would have led to the crew getting together.

But you raise a good point....based on reading lips in the video, I assumed he was arguing the no INF call.

[EsqUmp]

Regarding the issue of allowing the run to score, I think that it is possible that the plate umpire may have thought that R1 (NCAA) actually touched 2nd base when she tumbled over. Then in an effort to get back to the base, was tagged out after the lead runner scored.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Regarding the issue of allowing the run to score, I think that it is possible that the plate umpire may have thought that R1 (NCAA) actually touched 2nd base when she tumbled over. Then in an effort to get back to the base, was tagged out after the lead runner scored.

Great point.....I thought the same thing when I was going through the whole how/why? thing in my mind yesterday. Went back and watched the replay again to see.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Great point.....I thought the same thing when I was going through the whole how/why? thing in my mind yesterday. Went back and watched the replay again to see.

That's what I would like to believe happened. Unfortunately, if that was the case, because that would have turned it into a timing play with R2 rounding 3rd base and coming home to score, the plate umpire should have either pointed to the plate and said "count the run" or waved off the run.

I also know that we aren't score keepers, but we do have a responsibility to clarify when there is confusion. We have mechanics for that. And while we don't stare at scoreboards, someone (including the umpires) should have seen that the "1" turned into a "2" during the ESPN expanded media time between innings.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

[...] someone (including the umpires) should have seen that the "1" turned into a "2" during the ESPN expanded media time between innings.

Minor nit: The phantom run was the first scored by ND. Makes the runner INT in the 7th much more significant.